Belgium Burial

[MaryPage]

Olave Charles Petersen (Sometimes spelt Olaf) was hit by a shell in Belgium and died 5th September 1917. He was buried on Belgium. Olave was in the Kings Shropshire Light Infantry as a Runner. His death is recorded as....

O C Petersen

Private 12102

5th Battalion Kings Shropshire Light Infantry

Died 5 Sept 1917

Does anyone know if it is possible to find out where abouts in Belgium he is Buried?

Many thanks, Mary

[daggers]

Try Commonwealth War Graves Commission.

I cannot reproduce it here but if you Google CWGC, enter Peterson, O, and WW1, you will find the name of the cemetery.

Look around that site and you can find more on the cemetery.

D

[Fattyowls]

Hi Mary, I've just checked the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site and Olave is recorded as Peterson. He is buried in Wulverghem-Lindenhoek Road Military Cemetery which is in the valley below Mesen (Messines in 1917). The link is here.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/450567/PETERSON,%20O%20C

By cooincidence I passed the cemetery three weeks ago; as you would expect it is beautifully kept. Let me know if I can help any further.

Pete.

[MaryPage]

Thankyou so much for your help, this is great!

Kind regards

Mary

[Fattyowls]

Mary, apologies for sending the same information immediately after daggers had responded; the system normally flashes up a warning (Sorry Dags). As it happens I was reading the details of the cemetery and it could be helpful to me. Had I not looked for Olave Petersen/Peterson I would probably never have realised, so thank you.

Pete.

[daggers]

No apology needed, your answer was much better than mine.

D

[Fattyowls]

Daggers, I like to think of it as Merseyside teamwork. It was helpful for me as I am researching a Kiwi private called Henry George Stratford Churchill of the 2nd Auckland Bt. who was killed on 7th June 1917, the first day of the Messines Ridge operation. I believe he was a member of the Everton football club in Auckland; he has no known grave and is remembered on the NZ Memorial to the Missing which is built around the base of the old windmill at the entrance to the Messines Ridge Cemetery. Last year I placed a memorial card for each of the ten soldiers from Everton FC of Walton on Merseyside, CD Everton of Vina del Mar in Chile and the Auckland Everton. As five of the ten have no known grave I found it quite difficult to place the cards, particularly as apart from Pvt. Churchill two are in the NZ apse at Tyne Cot and two on the Thiepval Memorial. I don't like the idea of making the memorials look untidy so I was thinking about adopting an unknown grave for each instead. The notes for Wulverghem-Lindenhoek Road cemetery say that twelve soldiers from the 2nd Auckland were brought in from a burial plot by the banks of the Petit Douvre so if I place memorials again I think I will chose one of these. I was reminded of this idea when I was corresponding with Tillymint about her great uncle at Tyne Cot.

Mary, sorry to hijack your post but explaining why I was so pleased to read about the cemetery has taken me longer than I thought.

[MaryPage]

No probs with the hijacking! Olave is a relative of mine (my great grandads cousin, but was brought up with him so more like his brother). My main reason for the post is that someone in my family is going on a school trip to Belgium and wondered if he would be near to where Olave is buried. I have not yet been to a war cemetery. Would a soldier have his own headstone with name, date of birth, death etc. I am wondering how easy it will be to find him.

thanks again both

Mary

[MaryPage]

Sorry, forget that post. I have just seen there is a cemetery plan and a grave reference.

Mary

[Fattyowls]

Don't worry Mary, I should have mentioned it in my post. The headstone will have the regimental badge, number, rank, name, regiment, date of death and age if known. A cross is normally included. The family of the man could pay for an inscription if they wished. I'm attaching as an example Private Christopher Dickinson who is buried at Dozinghem near Ieper. We went to visit Christopher a few weeks back on behalf of his niece Mabel who is still going strong at 93. I hope this helps; I'd like to hear if the school trip makes it to visit Olave; the cemetery is close to a lot of places of interest so fingers crossed.

[MaryPage]

Thanks for that. He had quite a sad short life, I'm glad he'll have a headstone. The trip isn't untill the spring but I will let you know. I'd like to visit myself oneday. It took me ages to figure out how he fitted into the family so I've ended up feeling quite close to him! I have a great great uncle who died in the battle of Jutland, Joseph Baker who was Chief Stoker on the Queen Mary. His ship was sunk and the bodies not recovered. I don't suppose you know where there is a memorial for all the men that died that night? Mary

[Fattyowls]

Thanks for that. He had quite a sad short life, I'm glad he'll have a headstone. The trip isn't untill the spring but I will let you know. I'd like to visit myself oneday. It took me ages to figure out how he fitted into the family so I've ended up feeling quite close to him! I have a great great uncle who died in the battle of Jutland, Joseph Baker who was Chief Stoker on the Queen Mary. His ship was sunk and the bodies not recovered. I don't suppose you know where there is a memorial for all the men that died that night? Mary

I know a bit about what happened to the Queen Mary at Jutland but don't know of a memorial. I'd be interested to know; why not have a search or post the question in Ships and Navies? I'm sure we aren't the only ones who would be interested in the answer.

[spof]

Hello Mary

Joseph Baker is commemoorated on the Plymouth Naval Memorial

Glen

[bruce]

Mary.....ask the youngster to speak to a teacher before the school trip. If there is a guide, then the guide can be informed, and a detour made to visit the headstone. As a tour guide myself, that is exactly the sort of thing that makes a school trip.....mayes it personal and real, including for the rest of the party. Get her to take lots of pictures for you too.

Bruce

[Fattyowls]

Hello Mary

Joseph Baker is commemoorated on the Plymouth Naval Memorial

Glen

There you go Mary; how good is that? Glen, are there any areas of Great War study that you are hazy on, because I can't think of any. You were even the still small voice of calm in the great spelling debate. I was going to post something but as a man who spells Sassoon with 2, 3 and occasionally 4 s's I thought better of it.

[stevem49]

http://www.ypressalient.co.uk/CWGC%20Pages/Wulverghem-Lindenhoek%20Road.htm some photos on here.

[MaryPage]

Thanks for all the info everyone. Glen, I was in the area last year.... shame I didn't visit the memorial for Joseph Baker. Next time I will! Thanks Bruce, I'll pass on your suggestion. It would definitely be a shame for him to be close by and miss out! A very nice man has just offered to take a photo of his grave for me which I'm very excited about but it would still be good for him to see it for himself. I on the otherhand have a 1 yr old and 3 yr old so think it will be a while before I can trust them to behave around a war cemetary!

Mary

[Fabrice1970]

Hello,

As a Flanders resident and hobby-photographer i pay visit to cemeteries on a regular basis in my region.

So, if you're looking for a photograph from the grave of a particular soldier, don't hesitate to contact me!

All i need is a name (of course), and the cemetery where the soldier is buried.

Just send me a private message or email and as soon as i have visited the burial grand of your soldier i will send you the photo(s) by email.

Kind regards,

Fabrice

[MaryPage]

Hello,

As a Flanders resident and hobby-photographer i pay visit to cemeteries on a regular basis in my region.

So, if you're looking for a photograph from the grave of a particular soldier, don't hesitate to contact me!

All i need is a name (of course), and the cemetery where the soldier is buried.

Just send me a private message or email and as soon as i have visited the burial grand of your soldier i will send you the photo(s) by email.

Hi Fabrice

Thankyou for kind offer, its very good of you. However I have already had an offer of a photo of his Grave from someone who is visiting in October.

Best Wishes

Mary

Kind regards,

Fabrice

[spof]

Hi Mary

I see that it will be awkward to say the least for you to vist Belgium for a while but have you thought about visiting a local cemetery with CWGC headstones? Sutton Coldfield Cemetery has 46 CWGC graves from both wars. You will at least be able to see a headstone and better appreciate how Olave's looks. Perhaps after your relative returns and he/she can explain it to you with a real life example.

By the way, do any of your records on Olave definitely link him via service number etc. to the man named on the CWGC records? If so, they can be sent to CWGC and he can have a full name rather than just initials. PM me if you want more advice on this.

Glen

[KevinBattle]

Olave was the 5th KSLI's only fatality that day, and by the Historical Information on the Cemetery, it looks as if he may have died at an Advanced dressing Station after being mortally wounded.

Historical Information

The cemetery was begun in December 1914 by four battalions of the 5th Division and was called at first Wulverghem Dressing Station Cemetery. It was used until June 1917, and again in September and October 1918, and at the Armistice it contained 162 graves, the present Plot I. Graves were then brought in from the surrounding battlefields and the following smaller burial grounds:-

AUCKLAND CEMETERY, MESSINES, on the North bank of the Douve between Messines and Wulverghem, contained the graves of twelve New Zealand soldiers (including nine of the 2nd Auckland Regiment) who fell on the 7th June, 1917.

CORNWALL CEMETERY, MESSINES, 150 metres West of Auckland Cemetery, contained the graves of 21 soldiers from the United Kingdom (including 20 of the 1st D.C.L.I.) who fell in December, 1914-January, 1915.

FRENCHMAN's FARM, WULVERGHEM, nearly 600 metres North of the village, contained several groups of graves; and in them were buried 29 soldiers from the United Kingdom and one French soldier who fell in 1914-15.

NEUVE-EGLISE NORTH CEMETERY was on the Neuve Eglise-Lindenhoek road. It contained the graves of 20 soldiers from the United Kingdom who fell on the 2nd and 3rd September, 1918, and of whom 16 belonged to the 1st Royal Irish Fusiliers.

NEUVE-EGLISE RAILWAY HALTE (or RAILWAY SIDING) CEMETERY was at the light railway station on the South side of the village. It contained the graves of 14 soldiers from the United Kingdom (including seven of Queen Victoria's Rifles) who fell on the 5th January, 1915.

These formed Plots II-V. Within these later plots almost the whole period of the war is represented, in particular the defence of the Kemmel front in April 1918 and the final advance of September 1918.

You'll note that Olave is in Plot II Row A Grave 11, therefore brought in from the battlefield, as the information from the named cemeteries appear not to cover the right period or Regiment for Olave. It also seems as if Olave is one of the few identified graves in the early part of his Row, the rest are "Known Unto God" whose identities have been lost.

There may well be a War Diary available for 5th Bn KSLI covering September 1917, which might show where they were and perhaps what happened to Olave as their only casualty that day.

No doubt there will be a lot of school trips next year, worth contacting your local Royal British Legion Branch to see if they have some Poppy Crosses for the school to take.

It can be a worthwhile exercise for the school to allocate local servicemen for the children to each research a "Name" and perhaps find something relevant to that man.

If you use the EDIT button on your first post, it should reveal an "Advanced Edit" option, so you can amend the heading from the somewhat vague title to mention Olave by name and 5th Bn KSLI and you will then attract a specialist in that Regiment who may have the answers at their fingertips!

I see you already have a dialogue with KSLI about Olave!

Is that YOUR Private Tree on Ancestry with a photo of Olave (born 1895) in uniform?

His entry on Soldiers Died in the Great War (SDGW) and Medal Index Card has been mistranscribed as Oliver C Peterson.

Name: Oliver Charles Peterson. Birth Place: Gt. Malvern, Worcs. Residence: Gt. Malvern. Death Date: 5 Sep 1917.

Death Location: France & Flanders. Enlistment Location: Ledbury.

Rank: Private. Regiment: King's (Shropshire Light Infantry). Battalion: 5th Battalion. Number: 12102.

Type of Casualty: Killed in action. Theatre of War: Western European Theatre.

but the MIC clearly shows he was first with 6th Battalion KSLI when he first was sent to France, arriving 24 July 1915.

He was thus entitled to the 1915 Star as well as the British War and Victory medals.

Both refer to him being Killed in Action, which your description of being hit by a shell confirms, not my supposition that he may have been taken to a Dressing Station.

Being hit by an artillery shell is most often fatal.

[MaryPage]

Hi Kevin, thankyou so much for your time to give me this info. Its all helping me to build a picture of Olave and what happened that day. A kind man has offered to put a poppycross on his grave when he is nearby in October. I have received a couple of suggestions of the whereabouts of 5th battalion at the time of his death.

Yes, it is my tree on ancestry. I can't imagine he would be researched by anyone else as his closest relative was his aunt, my g g grandmother. Unfortunately the photo is not actually one of him it is a group of KSLI men from the time of ww1 which I downloaded. I would love a photo of him but doubt one exists.

What would have became of his medals? If a man died would they be sent to his next of kin?

Kind regards Mary