In honour of Ernest Worth

[tillymint90210]

Remembering today Pte Ernest Worth of the 9th btn Welsh Regiment, killed in action this day of 1917 in the 3rd battle of Ypres for the Menin Road bridge.

Aged just 24, a resident of Prescot, and my great uncle.

Honoured on the Tyne Cot Memorial.

[Fattyowls]

Tilly

Prescot on Merseyside by any chance? I'm assuming so on the flimsiest of evidence; my old dad used to call my sister Tilly Mint. She was really impressed that you were using that name. I was at Tyne Cot two weeks ago visiting Thomas Smith of Kirkdale also killed 96 years ago today and a couple of my Kiwi soldiers. It's nice that Ernest is also not forgotten.

Pete.

[tillymint90210]

HI Pete

Yes Prescot Merseyside and my parents used to call me Tilly MInt, especially if i was being naughty!! I love that you were at Tyne Cot, i would love to go at some point. Ernest was my great uncle and i only discovered that he existed a few months ago let alone that he fought in the war. I have discovered so much about him and the battle he fought in and lost his life in. He has no grave at Tyne Cot, his name is engraved on the panels. I wish there was a grave.

Tilly

[Fattyowls]

Hi Tilly

Sadly your great uncle Ernest is not alone at Tyne Cot as I'm sure you know he is one of nearly 35,000 names on the back wall. There are also 1,176 New Zealanders, two of whom are special for me as I mentioned. It's really great that you want to go; the scale of the place is staggering and sobering in equal measure. I'd also recommend the Last Post ceremony at the Menin Gate which is very moving especially when it's your first time. The thought that there are another 54,415 names of men with no known grave in the salient never fails to move me. I know exactly what you mean when you say you wish there was a grave. I research a group of soldiers linked by football and more than half have no known grave. What I've thought about doing is adopting the grave of one of the unknowns as if it were one of mine, sometimes you can find a soldier of the right regiment and occasionally the same rank. The cemeteries are beautifully maintained by the CWGC and are a fitting tribute to those who rest in them.

When you do get to go I'm sure you'll be able to find lots of helpful information on here and anything you can't find then just ask, people here are really happy to help.

Regards,

Pete.

[tillymint90210]

The numbers are staggering, it is almost beyond belief. And to think how we value our solders these days but back then they were just another number, so many lost. This is gruesome but I often wonder what happened to all the bodies, i mean they didnt just dissappear, they fell somewhere but what happened to them, just left there? Did no one ever try recover the remains later, be it just bones? Could they not be found and DNA tested so that families could claim them or at least to give them a grave? A huge task i know but so sad that they just went off to war and never returned in any form.

x

[Fattyowls]

Tilly, that's an excellent post and is full of interesting questions. If you don't mind I'll have a think about them. How about starting a topic about how difficult it would be to identify the unidentified given current knowledge of DNA? Very difficult is the answer I would think but it's worth asking. I don't know if you've seen anything about the mass graves found at Pheasant Wood in Fromelles recently but I believe that all of the bodies were DNA sampled before they were buried in the new cemetery there. There are some posts on the forum about it I'm sure.

[Fattyowls]

The numbers are staggering, it is almost beyond belief. And to think how we value our solders these days but back then they were just another number, so many lost. This is gruesome but I often wonder what happened to all the bodies, i mean they didnt just dissappear, they fell somewhere but what happened to them, just left there? Did no one ever try recover the remains later, be it just bones? Could they not be found and DNA tested so that families could claim them or at least to give them a grave? A huge task i know but so sad that they just went off to war and never returned in any form.

x

Just some background to your question. I've not got figures for the Ypres salient but in his "The Somme Battlefields" (Penguin, 1994) Martin Middlebrook calculated that 206,507 British and Commonwealth servicemen were killed in the Somme departement between July 1915 and September 1918. Of these 52% have no known grave and almost exactly half of them are completely lost and have no gravestone at all. I'm guessing but because the fighting at Ypres went on for longer and was more concentrated the figure might be even higher there. I know that what was then the Imperial War Graves Commission made a huge effort to recover the bodies after the war on all battlefields but such was the intensity of the shellfire and the churned up nature of the ground that in some ways it's impressive that they found so many.

[Stephen Nulty]

I'm feeling quite left out of this

http://www.prescot-rollofhonour.info/casualty-336-Ernest_Worth.html

[tillymint90210]

Stephen, as you know it is because of you that i discovered that Ernest Worth even existed and sparked my interest in this subject and gave me a new respect for the heroes, who i had heard of obviously but never really understood what it was all about. You have brought to life a long forgotten member of my family and given me a a great deal of knowledge and interest in this. PLease never feel left out, i owe you my gratitude forever!

x

[tillymint90210]

Bringing this topic back into the focus - if anyone has any further information for me about Ernest Worth, whereabouts of medals, a photograph, information of when he signed up, anything at all, I would be most grateful. I feel I know so much of his death but nothing of his life, would dearly love a photograph if anyone has regimental pictures or old postcards, please look for the name Ernest Worth.

Thank you so much

Tilly