Was this man awarded or entitled to a Gallantry medal

[Don]

Were gallantry medals only awarded for services in the theatre of war.

My reason for asking.

I have an article of an accident, where a Lieutenant Mc Donald Scots Guards threw himself upon a grenade

at a training Camp in Mullingar in order to save the lives of his men.

I intend to research his MIC,but there are hundreds of Mc Donald's.

But if gallantry medals were only issued in the theatre of war ,it will save me from a pointless search

Regards and thanks

Gerry

[spof]

Gerry

What was his first name?

Glen

[Don]

Hi Glen it just gives his Surname.

There was an inquest and the jury,in finding that the death resulted through the accidental explosion of a grenade added their wish to record appreciation of the gallant action of the deceased officer,recomended that this be brought under the notice of the proper authorities.

[keithmroberts]

If you have an approximate date you should be able to identify him using the CWGC advanced search.

Keith

[Don]

Thank you Keith.

It was on a Monday in May 1918

[keithmroberts]

Here the link to the advanced search - just vary the parameters until you find him

Keith

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx

[spof]

It just occured to me that for an officer I think the only award that could be given posthumously was the VC and there is no Mc/Mac Donald in the list for VCs from 1856 - 1920 for the GW period. The MC could only be awarded posthumously after 1979 so maybe a Croix de Guerre or similar?

[Don]

Thanks again Keith,

I got the link, and searched from Jan till June 1918,but no luck.

I enclose part of the article.The date of publication is 24 May 1918

Mc Donald.pdf

[keithmroberts]

Try this chap

MACDONALD, HUGH FERGUSON Rank: Second Lieutenant Date of Death: 20/05/1918 Age: 25 Regiment/Service: Royal Scots 11th Bn. Grave Reference T. 814. Cemetery GLASGOW (CRAIGTON) CEMETERY Additional Information:

Son of Capt. John Macdonald and Mrs. Ann Macdonald. Born at Glasgow.

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Gerry

I know of at least one case where the MC was awarded posthumously, although it was in the intial set of awards after the MC was created and the officer in question was dead by then, but if you can't find an MC in the London Gazette which fits, I doubt that one was awrded in this case. In practical terms he would have been too junior to be considered for the DSO but this was not awarded posthumously, being an order rather than a decoration, and the VC was not feasible as it wasn't in the presence of the enemy.

Ron

[Don]

Many thanks Keith I found him I was using Mc not Mac

Gerry

[Ron Clifton]

Try this chap

MACDONALD, HUGH FERGUSON Rank: Second Lieutenant Date of Death: 20/05/1918 Age: 25 Regiment/Service: Royal Scots 11th Bn. Grave Reference T. 814. Cemetery GLASGOW (CRAIGTON) CEMETERY Additional Information:

Son of Capt. John Macdonald and Mrs. Ann Macdonald. Born at Glasgow.

That doesn't seem to fit with a death in Mullingar.11/Royal Scots were part of 9th Division in France throughout, and it seems unlikely that his body would be repatriated from India to Glasgow.

Ron

[Liz in Eastbourne]

Ron, I also thought at first Mullingar sounded Indian, but on Googling I find it's in Ireland.

Liz

[Staffsyeoman]

Accidents in training such as this tended to attract the Albert Medal (2nd Class, in Bronze) for saving life on land.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Medal_%28lifesaving%29

I couldn't find him in a list of Army recipients, unfortunately.

[Don]

Thanks to all for your help,It's a pity he wasn't awarded some medal

regards

Gerry

[Don]

His MIC has him KIA 20-5-1918

[clive_hughes]

Could he have been MID, even though it was a Home incident? It was awarded to other men who didn't survive the actions for which otherwise they deserved medals (for example, CSM Lee who effectively held the Redan Ridge "last stand" together in November 1916).

Regarding posthumous MCs I know that on 30 March 1918 during the German Offensive, Captain J.C.Leask N'land Fus. attached 5th Border Regt. led a counter-attack on Demuin village and was wounded and missing. His colonel W.B.Little (of "Little's Force") wanted him to receive the DSO but this was downgraded to an MC because he wasn't of Field rank, and he wasn't officially known to be dead (which would have lost him that decoration as well). In consequence he was awarded the MC for this action in the Gazette of 26 July following, but not formally declared dead until 28 December 1918. He is named on the Pozieres Memorial.

Clive

[Don]

Thanks Clive,

I will check

[Don]

Hi Clive,

After a long search I couldn't find any award for him for that action.

Gerry

[centurion]

I think that the VC could effectively only be won in the face of the enemy (which is why in WW2 the men who defused a booby trapped magnetic mine were awarded the GC).Given the circumstances there probably wasn't an existing order of gallantry available for award

[Don]

Thanks Centuion

Gerry

[Ron Clifton]

Ron, I also thought at first Mullingar sounded Indian, but on Googling I find it's in Ireland.

Liz

Oops! Mea culpa - I should have known that.

I'm still not sure that he would have been buried in Glasgow, if he died in Ireland. even though his family lived in Glasgow.

Ron

[clive_hughes]

I suppose that as Ireland counted as a "Home" posting in those days, it entitled the family to decide whether to claim the body for burial at a place of their choice, or leaving it up to the authorities to inter it in the nearest convenient burial place.

They'd have to pay for transportation etc. so many of the poorer next of kin just had to put up with the official decision. This doesn't guarantee that the man in Glasgow is the one you're after, but it wouldn't be unknown for next of kin to exercise their rights. To take one example, in the sinking of the SS Connemara near Greenore in Nov.1916 a number of soldiers were drowned. Many bodies were washed up on the adjacent Irish coast, and of those which were identified a few were from England. One was buried near the wreck site, but several others were interred in Derbyshire and elsewhere.

Clive

[keithmroberts]

I feel 99% confident that we have the right man, and as LST points out death "at home" gave the family the option of paying to bring a body home. For absolute confirmation a check on the file at Kew is needed. I'm unlikely to be there before late October, when I will have a long list to pull up, but should anyone be dropping in.....

Keith

Edit: file reference WO 339/81699

[Don]

Thank you Keith,

Gerry