Immelmann's hits

[fmather]

According to our family papers/letters Leonard Kingdon, my mother's uncle, was shot down and killed by Immelmann on January 12th 1916 over Tourcoing whilst on a reconnaissance flight with Lt. Kenneth W. Gray who survived and wrote to my grandmother from a prisoner of war camp in Coln to tell her what had happened. My aunt has the letter.

I obtained a copy of "Under the Guns of the German Aces" by Norman Franks and Hal Giblin and was disappointed that although the book claims to give narrative details of all of the hits of, among others, Immelmann and biographies of the victims, there is no mention of my great uncle, though there is listed another hit of Immelmann's on January 12th : 2nd Lts Kemp and Hathaway also over Tourcoing.

Anyone got any comments/explanations.

Fiona

[Guest Pete Wood]

I was under the impression that Lt Kingdon had been brought down by another of Germany's greatest pilots, Oswald Boelcke.

Kingdon and Gray were flying in 2287 a RE7. They were supposed to be escorted by 12 Squadron, while they carried out a reconnaisance for HQ. But the fighter escort turned back because of the weather conditions.

Kingdon and Gray carried on thinking that, although the escort had failed to meet them at the agreed rendezvous, they would meet up over the lines.

Boelcke claimed an aeroplane in a fight near Tourcoing, which Trevor Henshaw (The Sky Their Battlefield) says was Lt Kingdon.

Interesting one, this. But it has to be said that many pilots claimed to have been brought down by Richthofen, more from pride than anything else I think. Boelcke was a minor ace at this time, This being his 8th victory. Boelcke actually received the Pour Le Merite on this day.

[Guest Pete Wood]

Boelcke's claim is also backed up in Above The Lines written by Franks, Bailey and Guest (Grub Street publication).

Boelcke claimed 40 victories and was killed, aged 25, on 28th October 1916 when his plane collided with that of Erwin Bohme.

[Guest Pete Wood]

Lt Kenneth Whitmarsh Gray was imprisoned in Cologne (and Osnabruck?) and he made a report about his captivity which is at the National Archives.

You can download the Medal Index Card for Lt Kingdon from here http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchive...1&resultcount=1

Was he related to William George Kingdon RFC...??

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Pete,

Nice to see you.

I thought German pilots were awarded Pour Le Merite for 20 kills - or have been watching the Blue Max too often?

Ian

[Guest Pete Wood]

Six kills at this time. It changed as pilots became more proficient.

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

And the qualification for Ace status in the German Air Force was 10 at this time as opposed to 5 for the allies??

Ian

[Guest Pete Wood]

Ian Bowbrick said:

And the qualification for Ace status in the German Air Force was 10 at this time as opposed to 5 for the allies??

Ian

I see what you mean, Ian. Ok, Boecke would eventually become one of Germany's greatest aces.

 

[Guest jinkslinger]

I am one of Sidney Hathaway's great nieces and I just wanted to say how moved I am to see his name in this list. Thank you for posting it.

[timhog]

Fiona.

`Knights of the Black Cross' has the folowing for Oswald Boelke.

12 Jan 1916 RE7 (Mo 12 Sqn RFC) NE Tourcoing.

Tim.

[fmather]

Fiona.

`Knights of the Black Cross' has the folowing for Oswald Boelke.

12 Jan 1916 RE7 (Mo 12 Sqn RFC) NE Tourcoing.

Tim.

Many thanks

Fiona M

[APW]

Fiona

This event is described in the book Knight of Germany (Oswald Boelke German Ace) by Professor Werner. It doesn't name the victims but describes the evnt in Boelke's translated words. The aircraft landed in the village of Mouscron, NE of Turcoing. The plane hit an apple tree in a garden, the pilot was dead and the observer severely wounded. The crew had been removed by the time Boelke visited the scene. He described the aircraft as a BE biplane with an American engine. He found that a lot of his shots had gone through the cockpit and he assumed that the pilot had been shot in the air. Reference to the BE was presumably German generic shorthand for British aircraft, in the same way they referred to all pushers (Gunbus, FE2, DH2) as Vickers.

Patrick

[fmather]

Fiona

This event is described in the book Knight of Germany (Oswald Boelke German Ace) by Professor Werner. It doesn't name the victims but describes the evnt in Boelke's translated words. The aircraft landed in the village of Mouscron, NE of Turcoing. The plane hit an apple tree in a garden, the pilot was dead and the observer severely wounded. The crew had been removed by the time Boelke visited the scene. He described the aircraft as a BE biplane with an American engine. He found that a lot of his shots had gone through the cockpit and he assumed that the pilot had been shot in the air. Reference to the BE was presumably German generic shorthand for British aircraft, in the same way they referred to all pushers (Gunbus, FE2, DH2) as Vickers.

Patrick

Thanks. I have since been sent by M. le Ceuninck of Tournai a photograph of the crash site and the wrecked plane together with two contemporary accounts of Leonard Kingdon's funeral from the Belgian newspapers......miraculous.

Fiona