War Memorials

[marion caunt]

I am part of a project collating information on the first world war as it affected the village in which we live. I am most interested in finding out the process of selecting names to go on war memorials. The reason being that we are finding some of the names have very tenuous connections with the village. Was it done by the local parish council or was there some body set up centrally that selected names.

[stevem49]

Parish council were (and are) often the 'culprits'. You will find men with tenuous connections for some, no connection, men from the village not on the memorial, men listed on several memorials. Even as I found men who died many years later but who had served in WW1.

The local newspaper for the dates will probably have the procedure used by your village. I found that articles in 1920/21 and 22 proved very useful in trying to work out what the 'rules' were.

You will probably get help from the forum, if you mention the village.

Steve M

[moulie11]

Hello Marion,

Welcome to the Forum.

Forum member John Hartley has produced a summary of the possible reasons for ommissions on war memorials on his website, here: http://www.stockport1914-1918.co.uk/reasons.php. I know your question approaches the topic from the opposite angle, but it should offer some useful guidance on explaining the uncertainties encountered when researching a memorial.

Good luck!

Luke.

[Phil Wood]

Hello Marion,

Welcome to the Forum.

Forum member John Hartley has produced a summary of the possible reasons for ommissions on war memorials on his website, here: http://www.stockport1914-1918.co.uk/reasons.php. I know your question approaches the topic from the opposite angle, but it should offer some useful guidance on explaining the uncertainties encountered when researching a memorial.

Good luck!

Luke.

He misses one - deliberate exclusion by those gathering the names.

The memorial I am researching omits two men who committed suicide while training. Was this deliberate? I don't know, but the suspicion is there.

[moulie11]

He misses one - deliberate exclusion by those gathering the names.

The memorial I am researching omits two men who committed suicide while training. Was this deliberate? I don't know, but the suspicion is there.

Sometimes we can but speculate. There are a few men who appear to have been excluded from the memorial I'm researching - and for no obvious reason. I doubt we'll ever know the reason(s) but I feel their contribution should be remembered nonetheless.

Oh, and I've just had a look at your Newbury website, Phil. Outstanding work. Perhaps one of the best remembrance websites I've seen to date.

Luke.

[BelgianExile]

Oh, and I've just had a look at your Newbury website, Phil. Outstanding work. Perhaps one of the best remembrance websites I've seen to date.

+1. Very nicely done.

Edited 18 September , 2013 by BelgianExile

[rickpreston@nasuwt.net]

One thing is certain there was no central body who prescribed who should be on any war memorial.

A church might just have those who attended that palace of worship. Church of England Parishes could have any body who lived in the area irrispective of his religious affilations. Another Church of England, parish I know, sadly in my C21 view, excluded RCs.

On a church Memorial I did research on some time ago there seemed to be 3 criteria

1. They were born in the area, 2. They lived in the parish, or, 3 They worked in the parish.

The vicar created a list of names who were known to him then published them the monthly news letter and asked for any ommissions. From memory he did receive 2/3 extra names of dead soldiers who were then added to the list and thus the names were put on the War Memorial.

Keep up the good work

Richard

[Phil Wood]

Thanks for the compliments re my website - much appreciated.

For the Newbury memorial the criteria seem to be whoever's name was put forward. Some of the connections to Newbury are pretty tenuous.

What interests me more is what criteria to set while gathering extra names to add to the memorial.

[marion caunt]

I thought I had replied but obviously not. Thanks for the replies to my query re: selection procedure for war memorials. I agree that the Newbury memorial information is very good and I have presented this info to my group. Somebody suggested that I include the name of the village I am working on to see if it jogs anyone's memory. It is Radcliffe on Trent in Nottinghamshire.

[stevem49]

I noticed that you have a number of Notts & Derby men (not surprising really)including men of 9th battalion.

If you require any further info on them or have specific names with 'tenuous links' list them.

Steve M

[John(txic)]

Sometimes a subscription was levied, so if your surviving nearest & dearest couldn't afford it...

[Dawley Jockey]

When I researched my local memorial I used two criteria

I) born in the district

ll) Living in the district at the time of enlistment

My local memorial had 143 names on it, using the above criteria I am up to 205 names now. Thanks to no small assistance from others I have identified all of the names although it did take three years to finally identify the last name.

Some of the names had indeed very tenuous links with the district, a father moving into the area just as the war ended but at least 3 years before any memorial was in place hence his son's name appears on the memorial although he had never been to the area (To my Knowledge).

Quite a few of the missing names had been born and lived in the area all their lives but their names were missed off, so no real rhyme or reason to how/who's name appears on the memorial.

Dave

[zoe4]

"Some of the names had indeed very tenuous links with the district, a father moving into the area just as the war ended but at least 3 years before any memorial was in place hence his son's name appears on the memorial although he had never been to the area (To my Knowledge)."

We had the same experience when we studied the 190 men named on Bexleyheath War Memorial We discovered some were there because a member of their family had put forward their names. For instance a Maurice REED, born in Hammersmith, who died in April 1916 (from memory... see details in Family Tree Magazine February 2010) and probably never set a foot in the town was there because his father, a vicar, had become the new vicar of the parish church in December 1916. Another one was a Frenchman who had married a girl from Greenwich. After his death, his wife happened to live in Bexleyheath when the memorial was erected. His name is on it but he fought with the French Army ! For some men, we found their link to the town but not what they had done in the war, for others we cannot find a link to the town but their name could have been put forward by an aunt (married, so different surname), or a sister (same problem).

The East Wickham and Welling War Memorial Trust is researching all the local men who fought during the Geart War - not just the ones who died - to put them on a website soon to be launched. For the ones who did died and were missed, mainly because their family had moved somewhere else, they will erect a new memorial with a grant from the Heritage Lottery fund. If you know any men from these places, contact the trust. www.ewt.org.uk

[old sparky]

Marion,

I have no words of wisdom, only sympathy. I am having the same experience myself at South Petherwin in Cornwall. I am hoping to get access to Parish Council archives at Truro in the hope that something may have been minuted. Good luck with your project.

Best Regards

Peter B

[old sparky]

Is it possible that if some of the borderline cases on dates and residency had not appeared on our memorials they could have been missed altogether? Better to be remembered where there were people to remember them than forgotten elsewhere. Does that make sense?

[kenf48]

I notice the Radcliffe on Trent war memorial is in the (Anglican) Parish Churchyard.

It's very easy nearly one hundred years on to underestimate the bitterness, religious and political disputes which surrounded the choice of memorial and the names that were recorded on it. While most communities recognised the solemn business of remembrance and soon reached a consensus, others did not and this often led to petty disputes and arguments.

In the Yorkshire village connected to my family history there was agreement the funds raised by public subscription were spent on a cricket ground and pavilion, as a result there is no village memorial, but each place of worship put up a tablet, in the case of the non-Conformists to those who served as well as the fallen. I don't know what was in the cricket pavilion as it burned down in the sixties but both the Methodist and Congregational Chapels have now been converted to residential accommodation and the memorial tablets are in private hands. The Anglican tablet remains in place but as noted at Post 7 does not include the other denominations, and many of the non-Conformists would not even seek to have their names included.

Some communities left the decision to the bereaved, but these were a minority and even then their wishes were not always adhered to. In one Parish a local Anglican vicar out-manouvered the non-Conformists by appealing directly to the bereaved to gain their support for the names to go on a lich-gate in the Anglican churchyard. As well as the bereaved ex-servicemen felt they had a right to see their fallen comrades were commemorated this became an issue when memorials became an expression of civic pride. Stoke Newington, for example tried to exclude any public participation which resulted in 200 protestors, organised by the British Legion, outside the Town Hall attempting to influence their final decision.

It therefore does not seem surprising that names were included with only tenuous connections, a generous donation could ensure a name was included and it may equally have been the wishes of the bereaved a name was not included for a multitude of reasons.

Ken

[Phil Wood]

War memorials were for the relatives, a substitute for the grave they could not visit. In reality it makes more sense to have a chap's name on a memorial near where his parents lived than in the village he where he was born - though, of course, he could easily be on both.