Royal Engineers - Tunnellers

[Kentishwolf]

Fellow forum members,

I have started to compile a database of all the Tunneller's I can find who died during the conflict. I am drawing the names from the 32 recognised Tunnelling Companies, (which includes the Australians, Canadians and New Zealanders).

I am doing this as I was a serving Sapper myself, find this of interest and most of all I enjoy the research.

Is anyone aware of an already existing database, because if so, I may decide my time would be better spent on researching another area.

My main focus is on the soldiers actually in the Engineers, as opposed to troops attached as working parties, however, if they are listed as attached on GWGC, I have included them. So far I have 2390 names, so the research may take a very long time!

I have seen that we have some Tunneller experts on the forum and would welcome their and anybody else's thoughts.

If nothing else exists and people think it is worth doing, I would welcome any information on the deaths of individuals to help build their stories. I am aware there are already some excellent histories of the activities of the various Tunnelling Companies, I am looking at the individuals, where they came from, previous careers and if possible how they died. I am not looking at making a commercial enterprise out of this, just an information database, which if I can get to grips with technology would be made available freely at some future date. In the meantime, I would be happy to give anybody any info I have, but it is very early days.

Andy.

[spof]

Andy

A few links I know of that may help

La Boisselle Study Group

Tunneller's Memorial

La Boisselle Tunnellers

NZ Tunnellers

NZ Engineers Tunnelling Company

The book "Crumps and Camouflets" by Damien Finlayson has a Roll of Honour for the Australian Tunnelling Companies and Emlectrical and Mechanical Mining and Boring Company. Austrlain tunnelling war diaries are online at the Australian War Memorial and I have parts of war diaries for some of the British TCs.

Glen

[Kentishwolf]

Thanks Glen, I had a few of these links, but interesting info re the list in Crumps and Camouflets, guess that is another one I will have to sneak through Amazon without the wife noticing!

I am not far from the RE Museum and Brompton Bks, so if this project goes ahead I will be popping down there to see if they have any useful documents, it is linking the incidents with named casualties that I want to get into, so it can fill out the stories for those men, and listing them all in one place.

Once again, thanks,

Andy

[jdoyle]

Sapper Joseph Niland, 179 Tunnelling Co. A cooper at Guinness before 'enlisting in Kitchener's Army'

1 of 7 killed in the same incident in March 1917.

[Kentishwolf]

Cheers for the War Diary entry, that is exactly what I am looking for. Interesting to note, That it was Sapper Rowan, not Gowan and there was also a Sapper Alfred Spalding of the 179th who is also listed on CWGC as having died that day, but not listed on this diary. At a guess, he died on his way to or not long after arrival at a CCS, but the information didn't find its way back to the unit for inclusion into the diary?

[JimSmithson]

Could I suggest contacting Philip Robinson, founder chairman of the Durand Group, possibly through Pen & Sword. He is writing a series of books on Great War underground warfare along with Nigel Cave and is therefore almost certainly someone to get in touch with.

Jim

[widavies]

Hi Andy,

You could add my Great Grandfather to your list Spr Henry Owen RE 175870, 254th TC, mortally injured by a mine blast on 5th February 1917 and DOW on 11/02/17.

Regards

Will

[Kentishwolf]

Morning Will,

I have him on the list, any details you can provide to flesh out his story would be appreciated. Where he came from, job before the war, married, children etc. My aim is to try to build as much of an admittedly small pen picture about as many of the men as I can.

all the best,

Andy

[enoch beard]

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/281618/EDEN,%20THOMAS

[widavies]

Morning Will,

I have him on the list, any details you can provide to flesh out his story would be appreciated. Where he came from, job before the war, married, children etc. My aim is to try to build as much of an admittedly small pen picture about as many of the men as I can.

all the best,

Andy

Hi Andy,

I have his war records and a section of the war diary which covers his demise if you PM me your E-mail address I'll send them on.

Will

[tunneller1916]

Hi Andy,

Two points to this interesting thread, I am researching my grandfather Edward Charles Parsons who served with 251 Tunnelling Company. He was discharge as unfit for service on 9th March 1917, after a period in the Northern Hospital and died on the 4th October 1918. Therefore I don't think he would be listed by GWGC. I would think there would be a considerable number of other Sappers who would also have been discharged through the extremely dangerous and difficult work work of the tunnellers, in similar conditions.

Second point is that I visited the Royal Engineers Archive at the Brompton Barracks Museum this week, initially to look at the War Diary of 251 TC, but particularly to see if there was associated material such as trench maps, group photographs, etc. The very helpful archivest said that they had very little, relying mainly on donations, the best chance of this sort of material would be the National Archives, National Army Museum or IWM.

Best wishes,

Anthony

[Kentishwolf]

Morning Anthony,

It is always difficult to track down soldiers who died after they were discharged. There are some of his papers surviving in the pension records and others in the service records on Ancestry, 104983 Parsons E C, Royal Engineers. He was specially enlisted as a tunneller's mate on 2/2 per day, having previous service in the Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry. He attested on 12th August 1915, a miner, aged 39 years from Cornwall. The reason for his discharge was pleurisy, attributed to active service conditions. He first served with 170th Tunnelling Coy, transferred to 251st Tunnelling Coy on 24.11.1915 and qualified as a tunneller, on 1.1.1916. As you say, he doesn't appear to be on CWGC, have you got his death certificate, it would be interesting to know if they attributed his death to his war service.

Let me know if you find out any other details, or if there is anything else I can do to help you.

All the best,

Andy.

[tunneller1916]

Hi Andy,

I havn't unfortunatly got a copy of his death certificate at present, but will get one and let you know.

In reading the 251 TC War Diary last week, there is an entry for Dec 10 1916, 'Col Logan RAMC, MO i/c Tunnelling Cops visited the billets.' and ECP was transfered the next day back to England. It seems likely that there might have been a group of men assessed for fitness at the same time? If so this might have been a general duty of Co Logan, visiting the Tunnelling Companies?

Best wishes,

Anthony.

[gdawson]

Andy,

I have a list of all 180th Tunnelling Company KIA cross-referenced with the war diary, let me know and I'll send you a copy in excel.

Regards,

Greg

[Richard L]

Lt Francis Charles Cecil Ferrers was discharged from 253 Tunnelling Company in January 1916. His record which is at Kew makes seriously depressing reading, but he was killed in action on March 21st 1918 fighting as a Lance Corporal with the Lancashire Fusiliers.

[wendyguest]

I researched a great uncle who was in 20th Battalion Royal Fusiliers and was attached to 261st Tunnelling Company RE. He was awarded the MM for rescuing men from the tunnel following an explosion in April 1916. I went to Kew and ordered a box of documents relating to the company and got the war diary,memos and anagrams. It was amazing. The relative was Pte Ronald Woolfenden who was sadly wounded at High wood and died on 18 August 1916

[Kentishwolf]

Was he attached to a tunnelling company when wounded, and was he attached as a miner or were 20th R.F. attached as working party, can you recheck which company was he attached to, could it be 251st?

Andy.

[Michelle Young]

Forum member Simon Jones is worth contacting too about the tunnelers

Michelle

[Tunsilk]

Andy

Some more info for you.

http://www.tunsilk.co.uk/page102.html

regards

David

[Kentishwolf]

Tunsilk,

many thanks for this, I have only got a few hundred in on the list so far and there are lots of the lads from Co. Durham mines already mentioned.

Thanks Michelle, Simon has been in touch and sent me some very useful information.

Andy

[wendyguest]

From my research it appears that Ronald Woolfenden was in the 20th battalion Royal Fusiliers which in April 1916 were in the same area as 251 Tunnelling Company RE. The tunnelling Company had asked for support from the Fusiliers and Ronald, who was 5' 3" was detailed to support. He was to a miner and it would seem that he did sort of guard duty, should there be a German breakthrough he was there with rifle etc, It here was an explosion in the tunnel, German ignited and miners were trapped. My great uncle went into the tunnels and rescued as many as he could for which he received the MM. We think he returned to his battalion and went into action near High Wood, was buried in a trench and had to be dug out, dying of his wounds on 18 Aug 1816and buried at Daours.

I have a report of a mine explosion written by Captain HJ Humphreys OC 251 Coy RE and in the report he mentions the following a 2nd Lt HISLOP, 2nd Lt CJ HANSEN.

Hopefully this is helpful!

[John(txic)]

'Wolf,

Do you have this chap on your database? Sapper 112895 Charles Burke, 175th Tunnelling Coy?

Living in Wolverhampton St, Dudley he was discharged on 31st August 1916.

Any more information gratefully received.

Regards,

John

[Kentishwolf]

Evening John,

I have sent you a message, some of his papers are surviving. I have not got him on my database as he looks to have survived.

Andy

[Guest Corgan]

Hi Kentishwolf

You wouldn't by any chance have on your data base any information about 178th tunnellers at Highwood?

There was a fatal accident with a Wolford Reeves Cloutman.

Also you wouldn't by any chance have any photographs of the 178th or know where I might find them.

Kind regards

Danielle Corgan

[Kentishwolf]

Hi Danielle,

Sorry no photo's.

Lt Wolford Reeve Cloutman, had attended the Royal School of Mines, there was an explosion in the mine they were working in on 21-22nd August 1915. They managed to get to the bottom of the shaft, and he carried a Sergeant 45/50 feet up a ladder. The explosion resulted in the gallery being polluted by carbon monoxide. Wolford was affected by this gas and lost consciousness as he was on the ladder. He fell to the bottom and was killed. Buried at Fricourt. His home address according to National Probate Calendar was 17, South Grove, Highgate, Middlesex, effects amounting to £229 0s 10d were left to Alfred Benjamin Cloutman, Gentleman.

Edit; War Diary for 21 August states, During a survey of mine in which camouflet was fired, 1 Sergt, RE, and 1 Inf asphyxiated. On endeavouring to effect a rescue Lt Cloutman RE was killed, Lt Jameson gassed, 3 OR gassed.

Nothing more at the moment.

Andy.

Edited 16 November , 2013 by Kentishwolf