Can someone identify these medals please?

[jay dubaya]

No I'm not suggesting that Sepoy, the photo is 100% Percy Snape. I am suggesting that the Percy Snape #231310 on the MICs wasn't called up until April 1917 and so there is a possiblity that the MIC isn't that of the Percy Snape in question. I'm not sure how complete the MICs are and I suspect that there are a few missing - this of course doesn't explain the double up of medals displayed proudly on Percy Snapes' jacket

[Sepoy]

It is possible that a medal card is missing, which is why I checked the National Archives site in-addition to Ancestry. What information supplied potentially matches the information provided by the photographs.

I believe that the Old Contemptibles confirmed a persons service prior to admission to the Association and Percy is certainly wearing the Association badge and a 1914 Star. The only 1914 Star that can be confirmed is to the KRRC possibility. Percy Snape (KRRC) matches the correct age and his discharged date pre-dates the Derby Scheme.The Silver War Badge issue details are shown here
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2456/wo329_626640_1170-00300/511761?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d0%26gsfn%3dpercy%26gsln%3dsnape%26sx%3d%26f11%3d%26f17%3d%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1%26db%3dsilverwarbadgemedals%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gl%3d%26gss%3dmp-silverwarbadgemedals%26gst%3d%26so%3d3&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

Without the survival of his Service papers, it would be a case of trawling thorough the Medal Rolls to try and find a 1914 Star trio issued to a Gunner Snape. (quite a task)

If the 1911 Census entry for Percy Snape can be found, it may answer my theory. Without documentary confirmation this is just a theory.

Sepoy

[DarkHuntress101]

This is interesting - are you suggesting that the Photo is not of Percy Snape (RFA) because if he was called up in April, 1917, how did he get sufficient time in to get the Good Conduct stripes in? (That is, of course, if he was a class Z demobilization in 1919). It is a real shame that his service papers did not survive.

Another way this may possibly be confirmed is via the 1911 Census. Darkhuntress where did Percy come from?

Sorry not one of my strong points

He came from Derby, and lived in various parts of it his whole life.

[DarkHuntress101]

There are only three Medal issue cards for "Percy Snape" shown on the National Archives and Ancestry web sites. One to the KRRC (receiving a 1914 Star trio) One for the 9th Lancers (receiving a pair) and another for the RFA (receiving a pair).

As Darkhuntress's Gt Grandfather was born in 1885, his age matches enlistment in the KRRC during 1904. Service with the KRRC during 1914 can be supported by the photograph showing a 1914 Star trio and an Old Contemptible Lapel Badge being worn. As Percy Snape (KRRC) was discharged "Wounds" in 1915. (This is confirmed on the issue roll of the Silver War Badge) he could well have recovered sufficiently to be conscripted later in the war. Hence the photograph of him as a member of the Royal Field Artillery and another pair.

With the issue of some six million pairs, plus trios etc, by a card entry system, prior to the assistance of modern computers, it is amazing that double issues were not a more common problem.

An example of a double issue where the soldier in question clearly stated his previous service can be found here

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1219/31238_200132-00445/1895039?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dBritishArmyService%26db%3d%26so%3d2%26rank%3d0%26gsfn%3d%26gsln%3dsmorodinsky%26sx%3d%26gs1co%3d1%252cAll%2bCountries%26gs1pl%3d1%252c%2b%26year%3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d1%26sbor%3d%26ufr%3d0%26wp%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%26srchb%3dr%26prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-b&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=31238_200132-00445

Mr Smorodinsky received a 1914-15 Star trio with the Zion Mule Corps and then another pair with the RFA. The issue cards can also be seen on Ancestry. Regretfully, I only have his Zion Mule Corps Victory Medal having missed his RFA Victory Medal when it appeared on a medal list some years ago.

Darkhuntress - smashing photograph of your Gt Grandfather. Have you investigated the local newspapers to where he lived to see whether any additional information is forthcoming?

Sepoy

The photo of him wearing his medals is actually from a newspaper article about him. I am trying to find the original newspaper cutting as i am sure a family member has it.

[DarkHuntress101]

If he gave the medals away, why as an old man is he wearing them?

Is the man in the photo on the photo (by the bench) Artillery?

Steve M

I have asked family members and it seems that after he died, his medals were taken by a cousin of his. My grandfather, (percy's son) was rather angry about this, as he believed they should have been kept within immediate family, so as to have been passed down.

We have long since lost contact with that part of the family and have no idea what could have happened to the medals.

[Sepoy]

The photo of him wearing his medals is actually from a newspaper article about him. I am trying to find the original newspaper cutting as i am sure a family member has it.

This may answer all questions (and my theory)...

Sepoy

[DarkHuntress101]

The RFA photograph can be seen on this link

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=199470

The certainly appear to be the same person.

Equally, wearing medals and being a member of the Old Contemptible Association would indicate someone who was proud of their service. It might be worth Darkhuntress's while to join the British Medal Forum and leave a post inquiring if anyone has his medals residing in their collection.

Sepoy

Yes it is the same photograph that he is pictured with, so yes they are the same man. It was part of a newpaper article about his time in the war.

[DarkHuntress101]

It is possible that a medal card is missing, which is why I checked the National Archives site in-addition to Ancestry. What information supplied potentially matches the information provided by the photographs.

I believe that the Old Contemptibles confirmed a persons service prior to admission to the Association and Percy is certainly wearing the Association badge and a 1914 Star. The only 1914 Star that can be confirmed is to the KRRC possibility. Percy Snape (KRRC) matches the correct age and his discharged date pre-dates the Derby Scheme.The Silver War Badge issue details are shown here

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2456/wo329_626640_1170-00300/511761?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d0%26gsfn%3dpercy%26gsln%3dsnape%26sx%3d%26f11%3d%26f17%3d%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1%26db%3dsilverwarbadgemedals%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gl%3d%26gss%3dmp-silverwarbadgemedals%26gst%3d%26so%3d3&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

Without the survival of his Service papers, it would be a case of trawling thorough the Medal Rolls to try and find a 1914 Star trio issued to a Gunner Snape. (quite a task)

If the 1911 Census entry for Percy Snape can be found, it may answer my theory. Without documentary confirmation this is just a theory.

Sepoy

I have the 1911 census entry for him here,though im not sure how much use it will be

[Stebie9173]

Percy Snape (as Percy WIlliam Snape) seems to have married Mabel Elenor Sturgess in 1908 at Shardlow.

After Florence (on the 1911 Census) they seem to have had at least two more children - Hilda M Snape (late 1911) and Dorothy A Snape (mid 1915). Dorothy's birth should fall in the period when Percy was serving in the Army, so it should mention at least his Regiment and possibly his number as well. Do you have a copy of her birth certificate?

Details are:

Name: Dorothy A Snape

Mother's Maiden Name: Sturgess

Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1915

Registration District: Shardlow

Inferred County: Derbyshire

Volume: 7b

Page: 1074

Steve.

[DarkHuntress101]

Percy Snape (as Percy WIlliam Snape) seems to have married Mabel Elenor Sturgess in 1908 at Shardlow.

After Florence (on the 1911 Census) they seem to have had at least two more children - Hilda M Snape (late 1911) and Dorothy A Snape (mid 1915). Dorothy's birth should fall in the period when Percy was serving in the Army, so it should mention at least his Regiment and possibly his number as well. Do you have a copy of her birth certificate?

Details are:

Name: Dorothy A Snape

Mother's Maiden Name: Sturgess

Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1915

Registration District: Shardlow

Inferred County: Derbyshire

Volume: 7b

Page: 1074

Steve.

He didn't have a child called dorothy. Around that time he had 3 childern born 1909, 1911, 1918,

[Stebie9173]

My apologies, the Dorothy above was born in the right place (Shardlow Registration District) with the what seems to me to be the right surnames of parents (Snape/Sturgess)

I assume the 1918 child was Jack:

Name: Jack Snape

Mother's Maiden Surname: Sturgess

Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1918

Registration District: Derby

Inferred County: Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire

Volume Number: 7b

Page Number: 987

The same will probably apply in his case assuming that Percy was still in the army in 1918.

Steve.

[DarkHuntress101]

My apologies, the Dorothy above was born in the right place (Shardlow Registration District) with the what seems to me to be the right surnames of parents (Snape/Sturgess)

I assume the 1918 child was Jack:

Name: Jack Snape

Mother's Maiden Surname: Sturgess

Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1918

Registration District: Derby

Inferred County: Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire

Volume Number: 7b

Page Number: 987

The same will probably apply in his case assuming that Percy was still in the army in 1918.

Steve.

yes that's right, he was my father, I ordered his birth certificate a few weeks ago and am still waiting for it to arrive. Hopefully it will have some useful information about percy.