DarkHuntress101 Posted 12 September , 2013 Share Posted 12 September , 2013 Could anyone tell me what these medals are and also the pin/badge on the lapel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rksimpson Posted 12 September , 2013 Share Posted 12 September , 2013 Hi WW1 - 14 star or 14-15 star? British War Medal Victory Medal, and another BWM? Sorry no idea on pin. regards Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 12 September , 2013 Share Posted 12 September , 2013 1914 Star, BWM, Victory Medal (then another BWM and, judging by the ribbon, another Victory). The lapel badge is the Old Contemptibles Association. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 12 September , 2013 Share Posted 12 September , 2013 Lapel badge - Old Contemptibles Association Medals - 1914 Star - I can just make out the smaller scrolls and fits well with the above badge British War Medal Victory Medal British War Medal Victory Medal - cropped off pic Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 12 September , 2013 Share Posted 12 September , 2013 Just to make things clear - a man should only have one of each, so one of the British War Medal and Victory Medal "pairs" is not his! If you have access to his medals they will have his army number and regiment on them - the star on the back and the others on the rims. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHuntress101 Posted 12 September , 2013 Author Share Posted 12 September , 2013 Just to make things clear - a man should only have one of each, so one of the British War Medal and Victory Medal "pairs" is not his! If you have access to his medals they will have his army number and regiment on them - the star on the back and the others on the rims. Steve. Ok, that's interesting. I have no idea why he has two of them then, if he should only have one. Unfortunately, I don't have the medals. He gave them away as he didn't want any reminders of his time in the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 12 September , 2013 Share Posted 12 September , 2013 Perhaps his sons medals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 12 September , 2013 Share Posted 12 September , 2013 Just to make things clear - a man should only have one of each, so one of the British War Medal and Victory Medal "pairs" is not his! Perhaps his sons medals? Or he served in the early part of the war, was invalided out at some part, and reenlisted under another name in the latter part under another name, resulting in medals being issued under both names? Or a simple clerical error when he switched between different branches of the services. Both are not unheard of, in particular with the latter switches between the British and Indian army seem to have ended up with multiple sets being issued in error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 12 September , 2013 Share Posted 12 September , 2013 Assuming he's the same chap as in your other thread, is it possible he's wearing the medals of a dead brother alongside his own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHuntress101 Posted 12 September , 2013 Author Share Posted 12 September , 2013 Assuming he's the same chap as in your other thread, is it possible he's wearing the medals of a dead brother alongside his own? No, it wouldn't be a brother, his were too young to be in the army at that time. Only one of his sons was in the second world war, and they wouldn't be his medals either. hmm...bit of a mystery to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 12 September , 2013 Share Posted 12 September , 2013 Did his wife or mother serve as a nurse? There are quite a few possibilities for the other pair including the 'double issue'. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 12 September , 2013 Share Posted 12 September , 2013 Hello Dark HuntressWelcome to the Forum. I believe from your other post that your relative's name is Percy Snape and that he had served in the Artillery. Well, I have had a look at the Medal Cards and I can see only one "Percy Snape" receiving a 1914 Star trio awarded to 5755 Private Percy Snape, 2nd Battalion, King's Royal Rifle Corps who landed in France on 13th August, 1914.Percy (KRRC) was wounded in action and discharged on 2nd May, 1915 and was awarded a Silver War Badge. The only Percy Snape I can see in the Artillery is 231310 Gunner Percy Snape, Royal Field Artillery who received a British War Medal and Victory Medal. Is this a case of a double issue? Percy Snape (KRRC) could well have been conscripted later in the war, if his wounds had recovered sufficiently, and he also served in the RFA. Unfortunately, no service papers appear to have survived to confirm this one way or another. Out of interest, when was your Gt Grandfather born? Was he old enough to enlist in 1904 when Percy Snape (KRRC) enlisted??? It would be nice to see the full photograph. Sepoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHuntress101 Posted 13 September , 2013 Author Share Posted 13 September , 2013 Hello Dark Huntress Welcome to the Forum. I believe from your other post that your relative's name is Percy Snape and that he had served in the Artillery. Well, I have had a look at the Medal Cards and I can see only one "Percy Snape" receiving a 1914 Star trio awarded to 5755 Private Percy Snape, 2nd Battalion, King's Royal Rifle Corps who landed in France on 13th August, 1914. Percy (KRRC) was wounded in action and discharged on 2nd May, 1915 and was awarded a Silver War Badge. The only Percy Snape I can see in the Artillery is 231310 Gunner Percy Snape, Royal Field Artillery who received a British War Medal and Victory Medal. Is this a case of a double issue? Percy Snape (KRRC) could well have been conscripted later in the war, if his wounds had recovered sufficiently, and he also served in the RFA. Unfortunately, no service papers appear to have survived to confirm this one way or another. Out of interest, when was your Gt Grandfather born? Was he old enough to enlist in 1904 when Percy Snape (KRRC) enlisted??? It would be nice to see the full photograph. Sepoy He was born in 1885 He was born in 1885 Also, I know that he was gassed while serving so ,maybe that is what his wound stripe was for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 13 September , 2013 Share Posted 13 September , 2013 Percy is certainly old enough to have enlisted in 1904. I think it is quite possible that your Gt Grandfather served in the King's Royal Rifle Corps and the Royal Field Artillery with two sets of medals being issued, ie error, for service in both. (A rare occurrence but it did happen) I know that he parted with his medals, but do you have any paperwork, other photographs, or cap badges/insignia which may support this theory? Sepoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHuntress101 Posted 13 September , 2013 Author Share Posted 13 September , 2013 Percy is certainly old enough to have enlisted in 1904. I think it is quite possible that your Gt Grandfather served in the King's Royal Rifle Corps and the Royal Field Artillery with two sets of medals being issued, ie error, for service in both. (A rare occurrence but it did happen) I know that he parted with his medals, but do you have any paperwork, other photographs, or cap badges/insignia which may support this theory? Sepoy No, unfortunately they are the only two photos of him that i can find as of yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHuntress101 Posted 13 September , 2013 Author Share Posted 13 September , 2013 He was born in 1885 Also, I know that he was gassed while serving so ,maybe that is what his wound stripe was for? this is the original photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow Posted 14 September , 2013 Share Posted 14 September , 2013 Brothers casualty medals or if you can find two MIC's possible reenlistment and double issue. On re-enlistment you were supposed to state previous service, so double issue is rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 14 September , 2013 Share Posted 14 September , 2013 Brothers casualty medals or if you can find two MIC's possible reenlistment and double issue. On re-enlistment you were supposed to state previous service, so double issue is rare. There are only three Medal issue cards for "Percy Snape" shown on the National Archives and Ancestry web sites. One to the KRRC (receiving a 1914 Star trio) One for the 9th Lancers (receiving a pair) and another for the RFA (receiving a pair). As Darkhuntress's Gt Grandfather was born in 1885, his age matches enlistment in the KRRC during 1904. Service with the KRRC during 1914 can be supported by the photograph showing a 1914 Star trio and an Old Contemptible Lapel Badge being worn. As Percy Snape (KRRC) was discharged "Wounds" in 1915. (This is confirmed on the issue roll of the Silver War Badge) he could well have recovered sufficiently to be conscripted later in the war. Hence the photograph of him as a member of the Royal Field Artillery and another pair. With the issue of some six million pairs, plus trios etc, by a card entry system, prior to the assistance of modern computers, it is amazing that double issues were not a more common problem. An example of a double issue where the soldier in question clearly stated his previous service can be found here http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1219/31238_200132-00445/1895039?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dBritishArmyService%26db%3d%26so%3d2%26rank%3d0%26gsfn%3d%26gsln%3dsmorodinsky%26sx%3d%26gs1co%3d1%252cAll%2bCountries%26gs1pl%3d1%252c%2b%26year%3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d1%26sbor%3d%26ufr%3d0%26wp%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%26srchb%3dr%26prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-b&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=31238_200132-00445 Mr Smorodinsky received a 1914-15 Star trio with the Zion Mule Corps and then another pair with the RFA. The issue cards can also be seen on Ancestry. Regretfully, I only have his Zion Mule Corps Victory Medal having missed his RFA Victory Medal when it appeared on a medal list some years ago. Darkhuntress - smashing photograph of your Gt Grandfather. Have you investigated the local newspapers to where he lived to see whether any additional information is forthcoming? Sepoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem49 Posted 14 September , 2013 Share Posted 14 September , 2013 If he gave the medals away, why as an old man is he wearing them? Is the man in the photo on the photo (by the bench) Artillery? Steve M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 14 September , 2013 Share Posted 14 September , 2013 On 14/09/2013 at 21:48, steve morse said: If he gave the medals away, why as an old man is he wearing them? Is the man in the photo on the photo (by the bench) Artillery? Steve M The RFA photograph can be seen on this link The certainly appear to be the same person. Equally, wearing medals and being a member of the Old Contemptible Association would indicate someone who was proud of their service. It might be worth Darkhuntress's while to join the British Medal Forum and leave a post inquiring if anyone has his medals residing in their collection. Sepoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 14 September , 2013 Share Posted 14 September , 2013 The 231xxx RFA series were Derby scheme enlistment most of which were called up during mid April 1917 and proceeding overseas late September 1917. Steve see other thread regarding Percy Snape and that photo, I think Sepoy has posted a link to the thread above. I would err with caution regarding the KRRC. I doubt the GC chevrons would count on re-enlistment to the RA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 14 September , 2013 Share Posted 14 September , 2013 If he gave the medals away, why as an old man is he wearing them? Is the man in the photo on the photo (by the bench) Artillery? Steve M Could they have been lost by a subsequent generation who didn't want to admit to this? Not that unusual I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 14 September , 2013 Share Posted 14 September , 2013 Could they have been lost by a subsequent generation who didn't want to admit to this? Not that unusual I'm afraid. Or sold...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 14 September , 2013 Share Posted 14 September , 2013 Or sold...... I was trying to be tactful!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 14 September , 2013 Share Posted 14 September , 2013 The 231xxx RFA series were Derby scheme enlistment most of which were called up during mid April 1917 and proceeding overseas late September 1917. Steve see other thread regarding Percy Snape and that photo, I think Sepoy has posted a link to the thread above. I would err with caution regarding the KRRC. I doubt the GC chevrons would count on re-enlistment to the RA This is interesting - are you suggesting that the Photo is not of Percy Snape (RFA) because if he was called up in April, 1917, how did he get sufficient time in to get the Good Conduct stripes in? (That is, of course, if he was a class Z demobilization in 1919). It is a real shame that his service papers did not survive. Another way this may possibly be confirmed is via the 1911 Census. Darkhuntress where did Percy come from? I was trying to be tactful!! Sorry not one of my strong points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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