Lammy Posted 25 May , 2021 Share Posted 25 May , 2021 HX2 0ET Pellon Works Resevoir road, Halifax, was flanked by wellesley barracks, and a tank factory. The perfect location to be involved in the war effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammy Posted 25 May , 2021 Share Posted 25 May , 2021 HX2 0ET Pellon Works Resevoir road, Halifax, was flanked by wellesley barracks, and a tank factory. The perfect locationhttps://mrbeady.wordpress.com/2013/06/22/pellon-works-halifax-june-2013/ to be involved in the war effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammy Posted 25 May , 2021 Share Posted 25 May , 2021 They are also mentioned in 1922 in the who's who of engineering. https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/1922_Who's_Who_In_Engineering:_Company_W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammy Posted 25 May , 2021 Share Posted 25 May , 2021 Maybe his involvement was more the process and tooling? The shape as has been, previously mentioned. Kettle helmet already existed. So maybe he just gave the sample to the war office, they went with it and nothing more was said. Then brodie comes along and improves the cushioning. Mr.Bates was just doing his bit for the war. Mr.Brodie was a foreign entrepreneur looking to make a living. Mr.Bates already had a life. He did get his mention during the war and also, when he drowned bathing.? Curious? Maybe the Conservative party knows more? He was a Conservative councillor after all, and after the war. Was he voted in because of his war effort? So many questions.?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammy Posted 25 May , 2021 Share Posted 25 May , 2021 Looking through graces guide, again no mention of John leopold brodie. So he was no engineer , not a registered one anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammy Posted 25 May , 2021 Share Posted 25 May , 2021 Supposedly from 1915? A mention of what wallis&bates did during the war again no mention of helmets, but does mention repetition work.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammy Posted 25 May , 2021 Share Posted 25 May , 2021 Just found this for £50 on ebay. Not the best pics , bought on a wim. But look at the bales, in hand will tell. Also no hole for the liner. Looks definitely like a brodie. Just hoping there is a stamp a fleck of paint, a shadow of something. That could shed some light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammy Posted 26 May , 2021 Share Posted 26 May , 2021 Also his death was reported in Australia. By an ex-serving soldier? No name of the soldier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammy Posted 27 May , 2021 Share Posted 27 May , 2021 See how deep the above helmets are . Much deeper than the final design.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammy Posted 27 May , 2021 Share Posted 27 May , 2021 Some interesting pictures from inside the Pellon works. Machinery is still there. https://mrbeady.wordpress.com/2013/06/22/pellon-works-halifax-june-2013/ Some pictures of the actual process. From an american firm in Philadelphia in ww1. Interesting machinery.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Burgess Posted 28 May , 2021 Share Posted 28 May , 2021 (edited) On 18/12/2018 at 13:08, Lammy said: Article from halifax courier dec 5 1915 seems as though more supplies from home towns, rather than the war office.! Every issue throughout the war has an article like this.! Isn't it more likely that the helmets listed here were knitted, woolen Balaclava helmets churned out in their hundreds by the ladies of 'The Mayoress's Fund' to provide warmth in the trenches, rather than 'Helmets, Steel, Mk I'? Just realised someone beat me to this conclusion several years ago. Doh! Edited 28 May , 2021 by Rod Burgess RTFQ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammy Posted 28 May , 2021 Share Posted 28 May , 2021 Yes. More than likely. But we will never know. Why such low numbers? Compared to shirts and sock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammy Posted 23 July , 2021 Share Posted 23 July , 2021 (edited) So here it is. It is not a brodie. But could it be a prototype. I have seen German, French and US WW1 prototypes. But I never seen an English/British one. Why? Because they were made and lost on the front.? This came from the Argonne region of france. Only paint left is very faint and looks horizon blue.? It is completely round, no head shape. But with a chin strap and wearing a soft trench cap, would fit fine. The bails look like adrian bales. Also it is magnetic, so cheap rubbish steel. All ideas welcome. Also struggling to figure out if it did have a liner hole , that had been welded shut? Hard to tell if corrosion or weld marks? Also slightly smaller , but slightly deeper. Edited 23 July , 2021 by Lammy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 26 July , 2021 Share Posted 26 July , 2021 Fascinating stuff. For my money that helmet could well be a very early, possibly experimental pressing - maybe even pressed using an existing tureen press, hence its perfectly circular shape. I would think it has no hole in the top (for the liner fixing), because the design of the liner and how to fit it into the shell had presumably not yet been worked out, and quite possibly in the first instance they may well have considered a simply pad sufficient to make it comfortable, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammy Posted 29 July , 2021 Share Posted 29 July , 2021 Yes or simply placed on top of a trench cap even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammy Posted 16 October , 2023 Share Posted 16 October , 2023 Just a little update. Found this while searching the national archives online. When Huntley and Palmers were given orders to prepare basic rations and army biscuits by the War Office in 1914 the tins were provided by Huntley, Boorne and Stevens. Other items they manufactured during the war included cases for smoke bombs and some of the first steel helmets issued to British troops at the front. Due to the Quaker beliefs of Samuel Beaven Stevens, they would not make weapons. This is the first reference I have seen , to this company actually making the first trench helmets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammy Posted 16 October , 2023 Share Posted 16 October , 2023 Would explain the above helmet, being completely round. Possibly one of the 1st attempts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammy Posted 16 October , 2023 Share Posted 16 October , 2023 There is definitely more info out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammy Posted 16 October , 2023 Share Posted 16 October , 2023 On 25/05/2021 at 20:43, Lammy said: Just found this for £50 on ebay. Not the best pics , bought on a wim. But look at the bales, in hand will tell. Also no hole for the liner. Looks definitely like a brodie. Just hoping there is a stamp a fleck of paint, a shadow of something. That could shed some light. Weight is 25.3Oz steel thickness is 1.2mm compared to 1.4mm thickness of a Type A , I own. An adrian helmet is 0.7mm thick. So this helmet would protect you more than the adrian but not as good as a type A. A type B was even better again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasemuseum Posted 16 October , 2023 Share Posted 16 October , 2023 It was not just thickness of the steel compared to the Adrian but also the alloy. The Brodie had significantly better mechanical properties in hardness, ductility, and strength. Added to this was a much more rigorous quality control system with a sample of every batch of shells manufactured subjected to a destructive test by being shot with a pistol cartridge under controlled conditions. There were no impact tests on the Adrian as a fabricated shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammy Posted 17 October , 2023 Share Posted 17 October , 2023 Yes due to the addition of manganese.Do you have proof of these tests.? I know they tested the M17, as there is a book showing test results. As you can see above huntley and palmer claim they made the first trench helmets. A biscuit tin manufacturer.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammy Posted 17 October , 2023 Share Posted 17 October , 2023 A MUSE OF FIREBritish Trench Warfare Munitions, their Invention, Manufacture and Tactical Employment on the Western Front, 1914–18 "None of the revolutionary inventions of the war, such as the Mills grenade, the shrapnel helmet,104 the Stokes mortar, and the Livens projector, for example, was invented by anyone working in the War Office or the Ministry of Munitions.105 With the exception of the Livens projector, a type of mortar, which was invented while Captain Livens, RE, was serving in the Royal Engineers Special Brigade, these devices were the creations of civilian engineers who had no previous experience of munitions and no experience of the military." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammy Posted 17 October , 2023 Share Posted 17 October , 2023 Biscuit tin to "Tin Hat". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Hauraki KIA KAHA Posted 17 October , 2023 Share Posted 17 October , 2023 On 27/05/2021 at 01:55, Lammy said: Also his death was reported in Australia. By an ex-serving soldier? No name of the soldier. Auckland is in New Zealand and the Auckland Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasemuseum Posted 18 October , 2023 Share Posted 18 October , 2023 On 17/10/2023 at 18:01, Lammy said: Do you have proof of these tests. Please refer to the following book by Bashford Dean, Curator of Arms & Armour at the New York Metropolitan Museum in the 1920's https://www.metmuseum.org/art/metpublications/Helmets_and_Body_Armor_in_Modern_Warfare During WW1 the Museum was commissioned by the USA Government to develop a helmet for the US Army. The research program extended to trials production but was not successful and the USA adopted the British Brodie helmet instead. This book details the wartime research carried out by the museum into the helmets and armour used by various nations, the USA trials helmets and a detailed review of the manufacture of the Brodie helmet. This includes details of the sample destructive test protocol during the manufacture of batches of helmet shells including how the USA test differs from the British test. I first obtained a copy of this book in the early 1980s. It has held a prominent position on my bookshelf ever since. It has its faults, there are errors. Although it is not a "Primary source" being written and published shortly after the war by someone intimately involved in the field it is about as good as a non-primary source can be. I have put links up to this book on the forum several times because I strongly recommend if you have a serious interest in helmets and/or armour of the Great War, that you should at least read this book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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