saw119 Posted 3 September , 2013 Share Posted 3 September , 2013 I think I now have enough evidence to show that the CWGC has the wrong date of death in their records and on his gravestone in Philosophe cemetery. Pte J Johnson was my gt gt uncle and rather than losing his life on 14/3/17, per the CWGC, he actually died 14/4/17. The evidence for this is: his MIC, war diary which records the 1st West Yorks as being in reserve trenches on 14/3/17 with no casualties but on the 14/4/17 they were subjected to a German raid which did cause casualties and the officer who was killed is buried next to my gt gt uncle in Philosophe with the correct date on his gravestone, the SDGW and now, finally, his will which also records his date of death as 14/4/17. The question now is; does it matter? Should the CWGC be informed or is it not an important matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 3 September , 2013 Share Posted 3 September , 2013 I think it does matter to get the right date. However the evidence, I'm given to understand, needs to more than a collection of circumstancial evidence. His SDGW states 14 4 1917 but SDGW is not deemed conclusive evidence. My experience has been that only surviving papers have been sufficient. Having said that the Will being available is a new one on me in terms of trying to rectify dicrepancies. I don't know if that has been tested via CWGC yet. Have you already been in touch with them? It happens sometimes that there will be a typo or scan error for the online database. Whichever , it's worth trying if only to test the Will 'evidence'. Hywyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 3 September , 2013 Share Posted 3 September , 2013 This explains the scanning errors a bit better http://www.infromthecold.org/cwgc_amendments.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saw119 Posted 3 September , 2013 Author Share Posted 3 September , 2013 Here is the evidence in a more ordered and detailed manner: These first two items are surely primary contemporary evidence 1) His MIC states K in A 14/4/17 2) War Office document H16/1905 dated 2nd July 1917 which is attached to his will records 'Killed in action in the field France' and his date of death is given as 14th April 1917. And now some more circumstantial evidence 3) Battalion War Diary records no casualties or deaths on 14/3/17 but a German raid on 14/4/17 does result in deaths. However, it is difficult to read as the entry is squeezed in at the bottom of the page. 4) The officer killed in the raid on 14/4/17 is buried in the adjacent plot to him in Philosophe cemetery. 5) SDGW records his date of death as 14/4/17. The only place that the 14/3/17 date is mentioned is on the CWGC website and on his gravestone in Philosophe cemetery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 3 September , 2013 Share Posted 3 September , 2013 It's not a scan error then? Hywyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saw119 Posted 3 September , 2013 Author Share Posted 3 September , 2013 I don't think so if I have read it correctly. I don't think a scanning error caused this although I have no idea when the gravestone was erected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 3 September , 2013 Admin Share Posted 3 September , 2013 That is a replacement headstone, owing to the industry adjacent to Philosophe the majority of the stones have been replaced. I've just checked the copy of the register I have (not those ersatz things in the cemeteries now) and it gives his date of death as 14/3/17 Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saw119 Posted 3 September , 2013 Author Share Posted 3 September , 2013 But I contend that is the wrong date of death, do people agree or disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 3 September , 2013 Share Posted 3 September , 2013 The army would use the official date of death as the date given on the war office form - its worth contacting the CWGC and asking if will update the records. Once of the IFCP members may be able to help as they have regular contact with the CWGC. His will also shows 14 April 1917 - https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Wills?Surname=Johnson&Year=1917&sort=DateOfDeath&sortdir=DESC&page=5 Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem49 Posted 3 September , 2013 Share Posted 3 September , 2013 CWGC will need his death certificate. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saw119 Posted 3 September , 2013 Author Share Posted 3 September , 2013 How would I go about getting his death certificate since he died abroad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 3 September , 2013 Share Posted 3 September , 2013 CWGC will need his death certificate. Are the service records available ?. If so you may not need the certificate. How would I go about getting his death certificate since he died abroad? I believe they are requested from the GRO as normal but you need the overseas register details. The register statesName: JOHNSON, Joseph WUnit:West Yorkshire RegimentRank:PrivateNumber:23609Year: 1917Volume : I.38Page: 9 Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 3 September , 2013 Share Posted 3 September , 2013 I will ask Terry Denham if the will form is sufficient Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 3 September , 2013 Share Posted 3 September , 2013 I will ask Terry Denham if the will form is sufficient It will be interesting to find out as its a cheaper alternative to a death cert. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 3 September , 2013 Share Posted 3 September , 2013 If our poster is agreeable IFCP will go with the combination of will form & MIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saw119 Posted 3 September , 2013 Author Share Posted 3 September , 2013 Please do by all means, just let me know what you need and many thanks to all who have contributed to this thread today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 3 September , 2013 Share Posted 3 September , 2013 Can you drop me a PM with your e mail address Will not be any more action tonight though as Im off to the local RBL for the Branch meeting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saw119 Posted 3 September , 2013 Author Share Posted 3 September , 2013 Sent and understood, these things happen in their own time and it's been nearly 100 years and I only discovered he existed last year as his brother, my Gt Grandfather, never ever spoke about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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