Help with identity of this soldier's uniform?

[jlewis6537]

This photo was in a box of mementoes brought to Canada in 1925 by my great grandmother. Does he look like a WWI soldier? Or earlier?

We have her grandson, Henry George Brooks REYNOLDS (1890-1917), a rifleman in the King's Royal Rifle Corps, who died 29 Nov 1917, France & Flanders. His name is on panel 9 of the Cambrai Memorial, Louveral, Nord-Pas-de-Calais. He was in the 1st batallion, and is number was 10059.

Could this be him?

Others have said he looks like a pre-WWI soldier, and if so, I wonder if he was in the Royal Marines Light Infantry (the closest match I could see to the style of tunic, collar style, and field hat).

Any help would be much appreciated.

Judy

[MBrockway]

That's a very poor quality image unfortunately, so it's hard to be certain.

There's a slight hint of a rifles busby, but it doesn't look tall enough and I see no plume. Looks more the shape of the glengarry style Field Service Cap of the ?1890's.

Tunic looks too light for rifle green, the cuffs look wrong and I don't think the buttons are blackened.

I can't make out the collar dogs, but, pioneers aside, I don't think the KRRs wore collar dogs.

Lastly the belt also looks wrong for a rifleman.

All-in-all, I don't think this man is in the KRRC.

Any chance of a better scan?

[jlewis6537]

I do have a higher res scan, but it's too big to post.

Your observations seem right on. Did the KRRC ever wear the field service cap? And did they have tunics without the breast pockets?

The buttons seem to be brass.

I don't see a rifle in the shot. He's holding a thin baton of some sort.

Looks like I'll be on the hunt for people as knowledgeable in the uniforms of soldiers in the 1890s...

Thanks very much

Judy

[T8HANTS]

Not a member of the KRR, I think he may be in The Queens (Royal West Surrey Regiment), as the collar dog looks like the Paschal Lamb (lamb and flag), and the date possibly the 1880's.

G

[Steven Broomfield]

My money's on agreeing with Gareth. The chap appears to have brass or solver buttons, which would preclude a rifleman anyway, and the collar dog certainly looks like the Queen's. Can you close-up on the collar dog only?

[jlewis6537]

You guys are amazing! Here's another scan of the collar area, but there just isn't enough in the original to help much.

[T8HANTS]

This is what we are trying to confirm

The lamb and flag

G

[Khaki]

I don't know why but the first ones that came to my mind was either The Monmouthshire TF or the Welch Regiment, (Dragon) but I agree could be"The Queens" also.

khaki

[jlewis6537]

I've found an F Reynolds #2821 Royal West Surrey Regiment, 2nd, Natal Field Force, in South Africa, wounded 5 Feb 1900 and 11 Jun 1900. I know your specialty is WWI, but is there a similar forum for the Boer War? This F Reynolds could match a person in my tree who was another grandson of my great grandparents.

On another line of thought, could this be a Canadian soldier in WWI? I have a nephew of my ggp who was in the Canadian Infantry 18th Battallion--

Arrived in England on April 29, 1915 aboard the SS Grampian and arrived in Boulogne France on September 15,

1915. He served with the 18th Battalion until July 19, 1916 when he was wounded at International Trench (shell

shock). He was admitted to the No. 15 Casualty Clearing Station and then transferred to the No. 3 Canadian General

Hospital. On August 14, 1916 he was transferred back to England where he served until being sent back to Canada

on February 15, 1919 aboard the HMT Canada. He was discharged on March 19, 1919 in London, Ontario.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts---so valuable!

Judy

[Khaki]

Is it my eyes, or is there an embroidered style grenade badge on the very front of the glengarry (on the fold in line with the nose) maybe just an illusion.

khaki

[asanewt]

Hesitated to join in on the Glengarry badge but, now you've said it khaki, my dodgy eyes are at the lanyard thing again,left shoulder. Upper left arm seems to have a patch or maybe photo' damage.

[Khaki]

I don't know about a lanyard, could be a fold in the sleeve but he definitely has a large badge on his left upper sleeve, now if I could figure out what he has in his pocket????

Seriously though, it looks to be something like an early RSM badge, I know nothing of the early dress badges but there are those that do, lets hope they are following this.

regards

khaki

[asanewt]

Not looking at the fold but the definite line at the sleeve joint going to the extreme outer end of the epaulette.

[Khaki]

Looking carefully, I can see what you mean, could well be a lanyard, I wonder if that is to a whistle if he is a senior NCO,?

khaki

[jlewis6537]

Is this picture any more revealing?

[jlewis6537]

Or this?

[Khaki]

The Queens Own Hussars??

khaki

[Gunboat]

I don't think its a lanyard because where does it go? There is no breast pocket it doesn't seem to go inside his tunic - does it run down to the pouch on his belt?

[JOHN BALL]

Judy,

Try the forum AngloBoerWar.com.

John

[jlewis6537]

John

I stumbled on that forum yesterday and have one reply; said definitely late Victorian and does look like Paschal's lamb of the Royal West Surrey Regiment.

So it looks like he was probably Boer War... I need to rule out Royal Marine Light Infantry, though. I've seen uniforms that are very similar, but for braid on the lower sleeve.

Thanks.

Thanks to all of you who chimed in on this photo. It's been very helpful.

Judy

[MBrockway]

I've been assuming he is wearing a full dress tunic, not service dress, and, since he's definitely not KRRC, that it would be scarlet.

However scarlet usually comes out looking much darker than this on the orthochromatic films, which were the most commonly used before 1920. See Chris's post here: Gordons kilt and tunic

Could it actually be the the grey worn by some of the London Regiment battalions?

What colours were the full dress tunic and facings of the 22nd Londons and 24th Londons? Both of these had affiliations with the The Queen's (Royal West Surrey Regt) and used the Paschal Lamb as their cap badge, so might have the lamb as the collar dog also.

[jlewis6537]

MBrockway, I think you're right, red would be much darker in a b&w photo.

The London Regiments 22 & 24 are intriguing in that the families who are contenders for this soldier lived there. But I notice the regiments were established in 1908, would that be too late for this type of uniform?

I am amazed at the amount of knowledge on this forum!

[MBrockway]

Further digging on regiments.org suggests 22nd and 24th Londons wore scarlet tunics.

Might still be worth keeping one of the other "grey" London battalions in mind though.

All these battalions existed before 1908. They were just amalgamated to become the large territorial London Regiment when the Volunteer Force was converted to the Territorial Force under the Haldane Reforms in 1908.

Most of them date back at least to the 1859 rifle volunteer movement.

[Martyn Gibson]

Can I throw this in to the mix.........South Wales Borderers

The collar badge seems to be familiar

Martyn

[Graham Stewart]

Seven button pattern 'frock' coat & wearing a glengarry - jampot cuffs(pre-1902)colour unknown, but appear to be lighter in colour than the collar - no Austrian knot, so not a Volunteer. Looks to be either a Regular or Militia. Any photographers mark on the back of the photo?