RNAS uniforms.

[LCpl Lee Cope]

Hello folks,

I managed to get over to RAF Cosford yesterday with my kids and we had such a brilliant day. We were on the hunt for anything RNAS orientated and we managed to find an RNAS cap! There were lots of RFC orientated things, but not a lot of RNAS items.

I've attached a photo of the cap we found, but the other photo's I've attached are what we think an RNAS air mechanic would have worn. Could someone please confirm this for me and maybe point me in the direction of anything else RNAS orientated.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Yes, the sleeve patch is that of an RNAS Air Mechanic, also attached is a photo of the RNAS cap being worn by Flight Sub-Lieutenant Kenneth Hooper of ' B ' Squadron, 2nd Wing RNAS taken 1916. Note his cuff insignia.

Regards,

LF

c/o S. Chambers - Uniforms of the British Army WW1.

[LCpl Lee Cope]

That's brilliant news! I'm gaining more knowledge about the RNAS each and every day.

For photo's I use the following link:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/royalairforcemuseum/sets/72157632133059170/

Which paints a brilliant picture of how life used to be in the RNAS.

Does anyone have any-other links or photo's that could possibly help me locate my great granduncle 'Sidney Harold Cope F34295 & 234295 (RAF)?

Even if the photo's aren't of him, it would be great to still receive them.

[Sepoy]

Here is a RNAS Air Mechanic together with a Grenadier Guards Corporal. (Brothers???) You can just see the bottom of a wound badge on the Cpl's left sleeve.

Sepoy

[patrick Eggs]

Hello , is this of interest.

Crimson Rambler

[LCpl Lee Cope]

Anything RNAS is more than welcome. I've read so much about the RNAS, but to see photo's, uniforms, cap badges and the servicemen themselves is such a great thing. I may even get lucky and someone may have a photo of Sidney.

[SilverFox100]

Hello , is this of interest.

Crimson RamblerRNAS.jpg

The RNAS had an armoured car division at the outbreak of war, use Rolls Royce armoured cars, commanded by Sampson. Is this a badge designating that? I am sure our experts will know this.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Here is a photograph of a unit of the RNAS Armoured Car Division which served in France and Flanders from 1914, Gallipoli in 1915, and the Middle East from 1916.

The RNAS Rolls Royce Armoured Car is armed with a .303-inch Maxim machine gun.

Note the various uniforms and kit.

LF

c/o S. Chambers - Uniforms of the British Army WW1.

[LCpl Lee Cope]

Did the RNAS have a cap badge?

During my time served I spent six years with the Grenadier Guards and I wore the "Grenade Fired Proper" and the "Royal Cypher, Entwined And Interlaced, Surmounted By The Tudor Crown, the most noble order of the Garter' and followed the motto "Honi soit qui mal y pense" "Shamed be he who thinks evil of it." And during my 2 years with the Royal Engineers I wore their cap badge and followed the motto Ubique (Everywhere) or Quo Fas et Gloria Ducunt (Where Duty and Glory lead).

Did the RNAS have any such motto's or cap badge description in Latin and such?

[Bilco]

Hi Gents,

This photo shows my grandfather William Francis Corser, on the left, and his eldest brother Joe. It was taken in March 1918 when they were attending the funeral of their father, also William Corser.

My grandfather joined the RNAS on 2nd September 1916. His trade was Rigger Airships, and he flew some patrols out of Pulham airship base. He has the eagle patch on his right arm. He was transferred to the RAF on 1st April 1918 and liked the life so much he re-enlisted as a Regular after the war. He rose to the rank of Flight Sergeant, served in the UK and Iraq, retired in 1937, and rejoined in 1939, finally retiring in 1942.

Bill

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Did the RNAS have a cap badge?

Here is the RNAS Enlisted Man's cap badge.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The RNAS had an armoured car division at the outbreak of war, use Rolls Royce armoured cars, commanded by Sampson. Is this a badge designating that? I am sure our experts will know this.

These were the RNAS Armoured Car Division's collar badges, and you can see them being worn in my post # 8.

Regards,

LF

[LCpl Lee Cope]

But was there a cap badge that encompassed all parts of the RNAS? They obviously had all their different parts, but was there one badge to rule them all?

[Gunboat]

Hiya maybe you could make a visit to the Fleet Air Arm Museum in Yeovilton - there is a good bit of RNAS stuff on display there.

[LCpl Lee Cope]

Fleet is a few hours off from where I live, but certainly worth planning a visit if there is a lot of RNAS stuff there!

[rolt968]

RNAS officers who had been general service naval officers and subsequently transferred to the RNAS wore the normal RN cap badge: two clusters of laurel wreaths (gold) with a fouled anchor (silver) between and a crown (gold) above.

Officers who had joined direct into the RNAS wore the RN cap badge with the anchor replaced by the eagle shown above.

Many ratings wore naval ratings (round) caps, which had no badge, but a name tally (RNAS, I suppose). CPOs, POs and some ratings wore peaked caps using the cap badge shown above, though I suspect that none specialists may have worn the normal RN version.

Roger.

[Insignia]

The badge shown in post #11 is a reproduction Royal Air Force first pattern 1918 Airman's cap badge, it's not RNAS

See:

http://www.britairforce.com/raf_capbadges_1.htm

http://www.britairforce.com/rnas_1.htm

[gwalchmai1]

Im looking towards putting together kit for reenactment and I want to portray a CPO in the RNAS on the western front. I am under the impression that they ended up wearing khaki army kit. But what badges would have have worn to designate rank etc. If he was RND it would be the black metal cap badge and a WO II [by 1916 which is the date im portraying] badge on his sleeve. Can anyone enlighten me?

[FROGSMILE]

On 01/10/2017 at 22:06, gwalchmai1 said:

Im looking towards putting together kit for reenactment and I want to portray a CPO in the RNAS on the western front. I am under the impression that they ended up wearing khaki army kit. But what badges would have have worn to designate rank etc. If he was RND it would be the black metal cap badge and a WO II [by 1916 which is the date im portraying] badge on his sleeve. Can anyone enlighten me?

 

RNAS personnel in France & Flanders wore Army supplied khaki service dress, including the simplified version (in some cases) of the jacket.  The Naval issue black peaked cap was worn with either red on navy cloth, or bronzed metal, crown over encircled anchor head dress badge, but a khaki cloth cover was usually fitted (albeit not in every single case).  Substantive (rank/rate) and service stripes were worn on the left arm and specialist badges on the right arm, with both in red woven thread on navy cloth.  Unlike the RND, there was no duplication with Army rank badges alongside.  There were also cloth shoulder titles configured R.N.A.S. in red thread on navy just below the shoulder seam, some with curve at top in usual Army style, and others curiously inverted, as if upside down.  Boots and puttees as normal.

Chief Petty Officers were marked by just a woven gilt wire and white metal (anchor) cap badge on a black velvet backing and collar badges comprising gilt eagles with outspread wings (no arm badges).  If you wish to be more obviously Naval perhaps a Petty Officer, who wore crossed anchors on the left arm (with service stripes beneath if appropriate) in the red on navy mentioned above, would be better.

 

Edited 3 October , 2017 by FROGSMILE

[gwalchmai1]

Many thanks for the excellent info. I also found this picture of some CPO's but in normal naval dress. do you have links to any pics of the cap badge? I would be going for someone who was transferred fro navy so normal navy cpo cap badge

 

[seaJane]

Usual CPO RN cap badge as modelled by my grandfather

 

[FROGSMILE]

Great picture of your grandfather, Sea Jane.  The collar insignia indicates that he was rated as CPO "Torpedo Gunners Mate (extra star above = at 'higher standard')" as at 1909-1920.  A real dyed-in-the-wool specialist.

Edited 4 October , 2017 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

On 04/10/2017 at 08:40, gwalchmai1 said:

Many thanks for the excellent info. I also found this picture of some CPO's but in normal naval dress. do you have links to any pics of the cap badge? I would be going for someone who was transferred fro navy so normal navy cpo cap badge

 

 

I enclose some pictures of the cap badge and other relevant insignia.  I noticed that reproductions of cap badges are available online.  Note that the lone, CPO's badge, is the post WW1 pattern with a ring of laurel leaves around it.

 

[seaJane]

4 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Great picture of your grandfather, Sea Jane.  The collar insignia indicates that he was rated as CPO "Torpedo Gunners Mate (extra star above = at 'higher standard')" as at 1909-1920.  A real dyed-in-the-wool specialist.

Thank you Frogsmile! I knew from my late mum that he was a Torpedo Gunners mate but not about the extra star nor how specialised that was. He retired circa 1937 [seems to have joined aged 14 in 1906, can that be right?] and rejoined in 1939. After 1945 he taught at PEMBROKE IV.

[FROGSMILE]

On 04/10/2017 at 22:55, seaJane said:

Thank you Frogsmile! I knew from my late mum that he was a Torpedo Gunners mate but not about the extra star nor how specialised that was. He retired circa 1937 [seems to have joined aged 14 in 1906, can that be right?] and rejoined in 1939. After 1945 he taught at PEMBROKE IV.

 

Yes, the 'higher standard' rate only lasted until 1920 and was probably something encouraged in the earlier period, but either no longer thought necessary, or replaced with something else later on.

 

He would have joined as a Boy Seaman Second Class aged 14 and trained on a redundant sail ship (a hulk, sometimes with masts removed - see TS ARETHUSA enclosed) for one year before being rated as a Boy Seaman First Class at which point Boys joined a warship for their second year of on-the-job training.  They were berthed separately during that year.  On the age of 17 they became Ordinary Seamen.  Tragically a great many Boys went down with their ships during WW1 and WW2.  Both the RN and the Army recruited Boys at the statutory school leaving age and as that went up then the age of enlistment changed too.  Boys in the Army were restricted to a few specific jobs, whereas Boy Seamen trained to a far greater degree and variety.  Probably the most famous Boy Seaman was Boy 1st Class Cornwell VC.  The RN officially stopped enlisting Boys in 1956.

 

My Great Uncle seems to have followed a similar timeline.  He too was a Boy, then WW1 veteran, and then reengaged in 1939 (in bomb disposal at Scapa Flow).

 

There is a book that might interest you:  

Band of Brothers: Boy Seamen in the Royal Navy, 1800 - 1956

Phillipson, David
ISBN: 1557500991 

Naval Institute Press Annapolis, Maryland, U.S.A. 1997