2nd Battalion, The Royal Welsh Fusiliers photograph - 1916

[AndrewThornton]

This photograph is from my collection and is of members of the 2nd Battalion, The Royal Welsh Fusiliers, taken sometime in 1916. The soldier second from the right on the back row is 17830 Corporal William Ratcliffe, who came from Armitage, near Rugeley. He was born in 1896 and was the son of Edward Thomas and Martha Ratcliffe, who lived at 8 Greenfields Avenue in Armitage.

William was killed on 24 October 1916, when the 2nd R.W.F. were holding front line trenches at Lesboeufs. Corporal Ratcliffe has no known grave and is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial: Pier and Face 4A. He is also remembered on the war memorial in Armitage with Handsacre.

It would be great if any other soldiers are recognised, so I hope some R.W.F. see some familiar faces.

[Muerrisch]

Marvellous group .......... looks like the NCOs of a company plus a few old soldiers.

Wish I could name a few names. I have alerted someone who might be able to.

Amonst them we have a stretcher bearer, and a 16 year minimum service man, and I think a DCM. Lots of economy jackets of course. No Brodie helmets I note, and the date that 2RWF received them is in much of the literature. Away from my references at the moment.

[Chrome]

Tried to send you a message but your inbox is full so I cannot reply

[AndrewThornton]

Hello Chrome

My inbox is now empty so please send your message again.

Thanks.

[Muerrisch]

Sorry, I do not think this can be a 2nd Battalion group, but a first battalion group. See my book Duty Done page 28 for a 1st RWF group in same place ....... this photo is fully authenticated, date 1 March 1916, Somme.

Please Andrew tell me why you think your group is 2nd RWF

[Tonybu10]

very good photo - Sorry can't help with any names but interested to note that Corporal Ratcliffe came from Armitage. I have a relative (Sargt. Horace Hollins 10th Bat RWF killed 30th April 1916 who came from Rugeley. Also very interested in your "quote" from Lieutenant-Colonel Evans 1/6th Battalion, North Staffordshire Regiment. Do you have a connection with the 1/6 North Staffords? My great uncle Benjamin Hollins died of wounds received in the battle of Loos with the 1/6th North Staffords. He had 3 brothers (including my grandfather)who also served but I'm not sure if they were all together as I'm just starting my research. Hope you find some names.

Thanks

Tony

[Muerrisch]

CWGC says he died with 2nd RWF but not proof that photo is 2nd RWF, indeed I doubt it. Many soldiers were transferred between battalions of regiment.

Have not found service record on Ancestry yet.

[Hywyn]

My Medal Rolls notes show 17830 William Ratcliffe as 2nd Bn only.

P28 of Duty Done shows a photo of Lt Wynne-Edwards

Hywyn

[Muerrisch]

Hywyn thanks .............. re. page 28 you are looking at the first edition of Duty Done, I was consulting the second so, sorry!

I will attempt to post the group in question later, having trouble reducing it.

[Muerrisch]

a genuine bona fide 1st RWF 1st March 1916 St Davids day with leeks Somme group note the building!

So either Ratcliffe served for some time with 1st RWF and was in these 1st RWF Somme billets [not necessarily 1st March 1916] before transfer to, and death in, 2nd Bn October 1916

OR

at some time 2nd Bn used identical billets.

Far from impossible of course.

I have one more piece of circumstantial evidence.

Ratcliffe entered F&F 3 May 1915 [MiC]. This will be the first draft of post-declaration entrants sent from 3rd RWF to war [3rd RWF Scrapbook]. The first draft from England to arrive with 2nd RWF was 25 June 1915. This is a very long flash to bang delay for soldiers who already had at least 6 months full time training. I suggest the 3 May draft went to 1st RWF.

I conclude Ratcliffe's service documents are among the missing?

I look forward to the original poster providing a little more information please.

[Muerrisch]

bigger

[jay dubaya]

Not wanting to split hairs but it's not the same building, 1st photo shows the windows with 6 panels, 2nd photo only show windows with 4 panels

Jon

[Muerrisch]

same building, further along, different window size was my conclusion.

brickwork, window frames etc.

Would be nice to hear from original poster.

[Muerrisch]

Well people I did my best but, owing to non-reply by original poster [here and PM] I will let the matter rest unless otherwise roused.

[Guest Jacob1234]

I know that William Ratcliffe was in the 2nd Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers.

[Hywyn]

Hello Jacob

Welcome to the Forum.

I don't think anyone doubted that William had served with the 2nd Bn (e. g CWGC, SDGW, Medal Rolls). The discussion seemed to centre on whether it was wholly with the 2nd Bn due to the possibility that the group may have been a 1st Bn one for the reasons shown by Grumpy. Tell us what you have.

Hywyn