Brigade Mining Section, 5th Kings Shropshire Light Infantry

[gmslewis]

Hello,

After many years of searching for any information on the military service of my great grandfather Arthur Sims (AKA Arthur Sims Rogers) I have recently discovered a newpaper clipping identifying which unit he served with.

The clipping is dated 18th December 1915 and says that he belonged to the Brigade Mining Section, Kings Liverpool Regiment. Can anyone shed any light on exactly what this means?

I understand through googling that the Brigade Mining Sections were set up to counter the German tunneling operations and specialist Tunneling units were also set up in the Royal Engineers. I can't find any reference to a mining section in relation to a Liverpool or Lancashire Brigade, was such a unit established or is it likley that he was transferred away? I cannot find a likely candidate in the medal index cards for him to help me pin point him any further and I would love to know more about what he did during the war.

This is a family history puzzle that has bugged me for a long time! Arthur was born 23rd November 1896 in Bargoed, South Wales and was a miner both before and after the war although he suffered badly with his lungs apparently as a result of gassing in the war. He married my great grandmother in Dundalk, County Louth in December 1918 where his occupation is "coal miner" so he was no longer in the army at that point. I have no idea how or why he ended up in Ireland to meet Catherine and I'm hoping that by pinpointing his unit and movements in the war it may shed some light on this mystery.

Thanks a lot,

Gareth

[gmslewis]

Hello again,

On digging a bit further and getting some very helpful advice and information it would seem likely that Arthur was with the Kings Shropshire Light Infantry not the Kings Liverpool Regiment! If anyone out there knows of a Brigade Mining Section in relation to the KSLI I'd love to hear more.

Many thanks!

Gareth Lewis

[sotonmate]

In War Diaries of RE Tunnelling Companies it often refers to infantrymen being attached to guard them during their activities,and then moving out and being replaced by others during the cyclical process of front line,reserve,billets. Might it be that an Infantry Brigade used men from their operational numbers to fulfil the guard duty,even though they were still formally on the strength of their own unit ?

[gmslewis]

Hi Sotonmate,

Thanks for responding. I think that you must be right. From what I've managed to work out so far I think the BMS were more of an informal unit (for want of a better term) used in defensive and infantry rolls protecting Tunneling Companies. It would appear they weren't used for very long before the RE took over all rolls in tunneling and mining operations.

Gareth

[Colin W Taylor]

Gareth

In War Underground by Alexander Barrie (Pg 26) - 'To help the harassed REs, various brigade commanders soon began forming mining sections of their own - composed, where possible, of men with civilian experience underground. Most of the units were 50 men strong under one low-ranking officer. Often they were attached to RE Field Companies and worked with variable skill...'

It might be worth a look at some of the other books on tunnelling to see if there is further mention of these units.

I was under the impression that in early 1915 in response to mine warfare Brigade Mining Sections (formed from infantrymen with mining experience) were formed to conduct tunnelling with the RE Field companies which had little experience in tunnelling or mining. As the RE Tunnelling companies came into being the roles of these sections decreased. I would presume by late 1915 that these sections had ceased and the infantry provided working parties to guard the tunnellers and do some of the donkey work for them.

Possibly your man had served in a mining section but the article referred to a legacy job that he had had earlier in the year? What is the context of the article - wounded, home on leave?

If he was, as you suggest, in the KSLI then the brigades you would be interested in (which had KSLI regular battalions) would be 16th Brigade (1st KSLI) and 80th Brigade (2nd KSLI) - the diaries for these units might refer to brigade mining sections. I have a few excerpts from these diaries and will see if there is any mention of a mining section. Getting a look at the full diaries at Kew may be of use (references WO95 1605 and 2278 respectively).

I hope this is of assistance - I should add that I'm not an expert on tunnellers.

Kind regards

Colin

[Kentishwolf]

Medal Rolls Index cards has an Arthur Sims, Pte, 16202, Shrops L.I., and C of Dns,? D/16402, entitled to the trio of medals, first entered theatre of war, 21.5.15 (1) and SWB List CC/640. Could this be him??

The Silver War Badge entry has Arthur Sims, 4th R R Dns, (Dragoons?) D/16402, enlisted 7.12.14 and discharged 14.12.18, (para 392, xvia.2. age 23 1/12 yrs), having served overseas.

Edited 14 September , 2013 by Kentishwolf

[gmslewis]

Colin,

Thanks for your reply! I'm certainly getting a clearer picture of what the BMS's would have got up to and what Arthur would have done in his service. The article is just a general article with a photo and short piece on local men at the front. As I understand he was with the unit in December 1915. The only other reference to him and the BMS was on 6th November 1915. From what I can gather they were pretty much phased out by early 1916 and the RE covered it all.

The December article says:

Arthur Sims Rogers, Brigade Mining Section, King's Liverpool Regiment, France. He is the son of Mr. and Mrs. Rogers, Dumfries Street, Aberdare. His father is also in the Army. He is Driver N. Rogers, Royal Field Artillery. Another son was recently discharged, viz., Private T. Sims, Royal Welsh Fusiliers.

http://papuraunewyddcymru.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/3579930/ART68/Sims%20%20Brigade%20Mining%20Section

I have ordered a couple of tunneling books from the library I'm just waiting for delivery.

Kentishwolf that is the right man you've found, and based on his entry into theatre I'm guessing he was with the 5th KSLI 42nd Brigade 14th (Light) Division. The Absent Voter list confirmed that this was the right man so no mention of the Liverpool Regiment! I'm planning on getting up to Kew at somepoint to check up on the details to hopefully confirm or deny my assumptions and to look up some War Diaries.

Thanks again,

Gareth

[sotonmate]

"Beneath Flanders Fields-The Tunnellers War 1914-18" would be good to see what went on .

[gmslewis]

Hello all,

Just a quick update on what I'd managed to find out about my great grandad and the Brigade Mining Section he belonged to.

I visited Kew this weekend and managed to answer a long list of questions that had been building up over the last few years (ran out of time though so another visit beckons!). I managed to prove that Arthur Sims was a member of A Company, 5th Kings Shropshire Light Infantry and landed in France with them in 1915. He later moved to the 2/1st Shropshire Yeomanry - I think after the 5KSLI disbanded in 1918 - he was home from France in January of 1918 and the 2/1SY were not in France.

The only mention of mining/tunneling I could find in the war diary was on 28th July 1915 which said that Captain CJ French, 2 NCO's and 13 men were sent to the 177th Tunneling Company for a course of instruction and I assume Arthur was one of the 13. I will try and go through the rest of the war diary at a later date to look for more references but I only managed to photograph 1915-6 in the time available! Interestingly, Charles French became a major and died the following year while attached to another tunneling company (the 255th I think) and his brother was also in the 5KSLI and was killed in action too. So it looks like Arthur was working with tunnelers from July 1915 until at least December of that year, maybe longer.

I have been reading Beneath Flanders Fields and found it a very interesting book. The underground war is proving a very intriguing aspect of the Great War and one that I am enjoying learning about - they must have been a hard and brave group of men. I remember many moons ago visiting the Somme with school and we went into a large complex of tunnels and chambers and the sheer scale was mind boggling. The work put into this was truly immense.

Gareth

[6th Shropshires]

Well done Gareth.

Annette