Fattyowls Posted 25 August , 2013 Share Posted 25 August , 2013 Chums On page 67 of 'Before Endeavours Fade' (Rose Coombs, After the Battle, 1994) the crossroads just east of the Guards cemetery is described thus: "The crossroads before the village [of Givenchy] is the famous Windy Corner". Ms Coombs does not go into why it is famous (or was at the time). I've spent ages searching the forum and the wider electrical interweb and while I've found a load of useful and interesting stuff I still haven't found a specific explanation of it's fame. I knew about Windy Corner at Jutland but this one had passed me by. By implication I wonder if everyone who served in the area knew the crossroads by name in the same way as say Hellfire Corner. Forgive me if I've missed something glaringly obvious (I am prepared to have enough egg on my face to make a substantial omlette), but can anyone enlighten me? Regards, Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 26 August , 2013 Admin Share Posted 26 August , 2013 I've just dug out my dog eared copy of BEF, and have read the relevant passage- maybe she meant infamous? It was probably as notorious in that sector as Hell fire Corner was in the Salient. It was a hot spot, and of course Windy does not refer to the climate. (BTW, The bunker photographed on page 68 is still there in Festubert, but you need to know where now, it's covered in foliage) Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRC Kevin Posted 26 August , 2013 Share Posted 26 August , 2013 Windy Corner was a 'choke point'- if you wanted to bring anything forwards or backwards to the trenches in front of Givenchy it was likely to go through Windy Corner. The road running north and south from there was also the location of headquarters and attached personnel, e.g. Trench Mortars, Engineers etc, for whichever battalion was in the front and very often also for the 'support' battalion too and in 1918 it was also part of the 'Village Line' defences. (Technically the 'Battle Zone', but given the geographical restrictions of Givenchy is more akin to the rear of the 'Forward Zone') Photo below from Jeudwine papers, Liverpool Record Office. And today, just to the north of the junction, looking south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 26 August , 2013 Author Share Posted 26 August , 2013 Michelle, Kevin I think that pretty well clears that one up; magnificent. And I don't feel that I have oeuf sur la visage either; a win win situation. I am sure that windy in this context has nothing to do with the local climate; I seem to remember reading of a misunderstanding between a British officer and his American counterpart in Korea when a position was described as a bit windy (and in need of reinforcement) and it was taken as a weather report. Equally I have seen the word used in place of nervous or frightened. I suspect there is a whole vocabulary of the Great War of which we only hear distant echoes. Much appreciated as ever, Pete. P.S. I'm also going to have a look for that ivy covered German observation post in Aubers (or should I say o-pip) next week. I'm assuming that it's still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRC Kevin Posted 26 August , 2013 Share Posted 26 August , 2013 Hi Pete, Looking at the 'Everton' in your signature line, I'm guessing you're interested in RFA attached to 55th Division? Some of the guns were surprisingly far forward. For example, an 18-Pounder was placed in the anti-tank role, just 200 yards back from Orchard Keep (in grid square 15a., which is immediately below square 9 in the map below). The map is General Jeudwine's own marked copy from Liverpool record Office. The 'Leps' positions are machine gun positions, the red arrows showing the arcs of fire. The dotted red lines are the positions of the underground 'subway' system joining various keeps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 26 August , 2013 Author Share Posted 26 August , 2013 Kevin This is fantastic; I would have had a personal interest up until about 10 days ago when I joined the forum as a result of seeing the post by Colin aka the_5th_KIngs post on the 57th West Lancs division. Prior to that I thought that Grandad Sid was in the 55th but now I believe it was the 57th. Prior to that I thought he was in a West Riding RFA Battery but that was because I misread his medal roll and thought he served in Salonika. This in no way detracts from my interest in the 55th and it's stand at Givenchy. I'm going to be passing through probably a week on Wednesday with a couple of friends who are first time visitors en route from Arras to Ieper and I'm going to have to resist the temptation to stay all day. However I've now got so much information on the area as a result of this and the responses to my Aubers Ridge thread I'm going to have to go back and do the area in detail on foot. The 55th walked to the area so I should and anyway I'm a danger to myself and others in a car on French roads. Thanks again, Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 26 August , 2013 Admin Share Posted 26 August , 2013 Pete I have no objection to you starting a new thread! I will be in the area end of September, can't wait. I'd advise that you look at the village war memorial in Cambrin if you can- you may find it a bit unusual! PM me for ideas on places to stay for your solo trip Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 26 August , 2013 Author Share Posted 26 August , 2013 Michelle Just had a look on Street view; funny, I'm sure I've seen that statue somewhere before........ Joking aside I'm starting to worry about not being able to summarise what I know about the whole of the area we are visiting as I get more and more information thanks to you, Kevin and the rest of the chums. I think the art of a good tour guide is to paint the picture in a few brush strokes; I end up painting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel and take almost as long. I researched a Beatles tour for my friend Charlie earlier this year (he saw them as a boy while growing up in Milwaukee) and when I timed it it came in at around 18 hours without meal breaks. The bit at the end of Penny Lane starts with a half hour history of the Liverpool slave trade and continues with a four hour deconstruction of the lyrics including digressions about the organisation of the Merseyside Fire Service in the 60's and the geographical distribution of barber shops. You see why I am panicing? Pete. P.S. PM coming up about accomodation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyne Posted 26 August , 2013 Share Posted 26 August , 2013 I've just dug out my dog eared copy of BEF, and have read the relevant passage- maybe she meant infamous? It was probably as notorious in that sector as Hell fire Corner was in the Salient. It was a hot spot, and of course Windy does not refer to the climate. (BTW, The bunker photographed on page 68 is still there in Festubert, but you need to know where now, it's covered in foliage) Michelle With the risk of myself asking a pretty obvious question, Michelle : what book are you referring to as tour "dog eared copy of BEF" ???? MM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 26 August , 2013 Admin Share Posted 26 August , 2013 Marilyne, it is Before Endeavors Fade, by Rose Coombs Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyne Posted 27 August , 2013 Share Posted 27 August , 2013 ach sooooo ... I was looking for a title BEF as in British Expeditionary Force... foolish me!! Worse even that I actually have my copy in full sight !! MM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 27 August , 2013 Author Share Posted 27 August , 2013 Marilyne If it is any consolation my copy of 'BEF' is pretty old and dog eared and it had never occured to me either. When I read Michelle's post I thought of Homer Simpson and went "Doh!". I find I'm doing that a lot lately. Michelle You are quite within your rights to say "Oh Duh!" as our American cousins might say. Lovely words about North London's No. 1 ballad singer, wit, raconteur and Ploegsteert expert by the way. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 27 August , 2013 Admin Share Posted 27 August , 2013 Marilyne, I believe that Miss Coombs chose the name so that it would also mean British Expeditionary Force. Pete My father still has a cassette of Tony crooning, he did get my lad to copy some to CD last year. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 27 August , 2013 Author Share Posted 27 August , 2013 I will think of Rose when I go to the Ramparts cemetery in Ieper next week; I'll feel a bit sheepish though (no change there then). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyne Posted 28 August , 2013 Share Posted 28 August , 2013 Glad to read I'm not alone !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 28 August , 2013 Share Posted 28 August , 2013 Pete There is a huge amount of stuff in the Liverpool Record Office about 55th Div, it is Gen Jeudwine's personal archive. You could browse the LRO catalogue online and add several weeks of research, but you have to order in advance if you want to see the papers. I have not been able to visit since the reopening. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 28 August , 2013 Author Share Posted 28 August , 2013 Daggers I'm planning to spend a bit of time in the records office later on this year as I have a research project in mind. The Jeudwine archive sounds a goldmine and would have been of huge interest with regards to my grandfather Sid; however since I now think he served with the 57th division I'll have to push it down the list. As far as the 55th is concerned I am going to have to limit my coverage on this trip as we have a lot of front to explore (Maricourt to Poellcapple and Pilckem doesn't leave a lot out) and my mates are making their Western Front debuts. However I might look up where the 55th are alledges to have 'broken' in the face of the Cambrai counter attack as I may get out to Bourlon Wood and Flesquieres if time allows. It would make a nice counterpoint to their epic stand at Givenchy four months later. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RQSM Clark's g'son Posted 17 October , 2013 Share Posted 17 October , 2013 IRC Kevin's modern photo is actually from the east on Rue Rodespierre looking west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRC Kevin Posted 17 October , 2013 Share Posted 17 October , 2013 IRC Kevin's modern photo is actually from the east on Rue Rodespierre looking west. Absolutely right- we'd just come from Moat Farm. - put it down to brain fade as the picture I was looking at when I wrote the description was not the one I posted. Doh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 26 February , 2019 Share Posted 26 February , 2019 My interest in this Forum (Givenchy 1915) is recent but originated many years . in Australia. My late father was a private in the Cyclist Company 47 (TF) London Division and saw his first real action was at Givienchy 25th May 1915. He was a member of 77 (75?) trench bombers and of which only 17 reputably answered the Roll Call next day the 26th, Cpl Len. Keyworth a fellow bomber won the VC in this action. .. I have included a Vignette titled "Lambs to the Slaughter" In a 30 Vignettes relating . on my Dads. life in four services1st August 1914 to 31st December 1945. He wrote only one sentence of his WWI life as a soldier before joining the RFC in May 1917. He did mention Givenchy. and Loos to me once or twice but in no detail Some years ago I visited France and Givenchy and also the forwrdGerman trench where my Dad crashed landed on the 29th June 1918. I have written 3 Vignettes on his time with the 47th London Division and later 4th Corp Cyclist Battalion. I regret I was not interested while he was alive A para from Vignette 1 Lambs to the Slaughter below. Best wishes Charles """The attack began on time. Charles and Charlie Napier—his school friend, mentor and now Corporal—were part of the trench bombing party of 75 bombardiers. Trench bombers carried no rifles; they were armed with bombs and daggers: ‘The almost private weapon, made of iron, certainly brought forth many sarcastic remarks in contempt for those that thought of it[U1] .’ By 1 am, after capturing 20 Germans, heavy losses amongst the bombers [PG2] [U3] necessitated the abandonment of trenches I.2 to I.9. The Germans had counter-attacked with bombing and sustained rifle fire from the right flank. At 3.30 am, D Company and two other platoons were withdrawn to their original jump-off point, the Scottish Trench. Unfortunately, a number of D Company soldiers who had joined the attack by mistake now lay dead or wounded or were missing in the tangle of abandoned trenches. Dawn saw the loss of communications between the remaining occupied trenches. Runners ran back to the Scottish Trench for assistance to evacuate the hundreds of wounded and attempt to extricate the dead.""" Cyclist Company, 47 (TF) Division. In the Line 1915–1918: Pip Squeaks from the Past:. A Record in Short Bursts. [U. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 26 February , 2019 Admin Share Posted 26 February , 2019 Welcome to the forum Charles. Thank you for sharing this. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 27 February , 2019 Share Posted 27 February , 2019 It is a pleasure, Michelle,. I hope I can learn more about that action Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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