4th South Wales Borderers

[GraemeClarke]

Hi

Can anyone help, please, with War Diary excerpts for

4th Battalion, South Wales Borderers

whilst at Gallipoli. I have men KiA on

Sunday 19 December 1915

Friday 7 January 1916

Many thanks,

Graeme

[michaeldr]

Sorry Graeme, but I don't have this WD

What I can offer is the little available from Westlake's book

19^th December was when they commenced their evacuation from Suvla; they were the last battalion of the 40^th Brigade to leave the trenches. They embarked from Lala Baba, the last men leaving for Imbros at 03.00 am on the 20^th Dec.

From 31^st December they were in the line at Helles from Northern Barricade to the junction of New Cut and the Rue de Paris. They were evacuated to Mudros on 8^th January 1916

Good luck

Michael

[GraemeClarke]

Hi Michael,

Cheers for that but that is what intrigues me. The dates are so close to 2 evacuations that I need to know what the diary says.

Heres hoping !!

Regards,

Graeme

[Guest]

The War diaries for 40th Bde have not been digitised for some reason - the 38th and 39th Bde War Diaries have, which makes the 13th Div a difficult Division to understand if you cant get to the National Archives. I am likely to be there soon so unless anyone answers your questions in the meantime, give me a nudge in a week or so.....

I have some of 40th Bde War Diaries but cant recall if they include the SWB. I am travelling and get back tomorrow so will check and revert. Can't remember if the SWB history contains any detail. Can check that too....

Regards MG

[GraemeClarke]

Hi Martin

Many thanks for the reply, hopefully speak after the shut-down then,

Regards,

Graeme

[Guest]

HiCan anyone help, please, with War Diary excerpts for4th Battalion, South Wales Bordererswhilst at Gallipoli. I have men KiA onSunday 19 December 1915Friday 7 January 1916Many thanks,Graeme

Graeme - 'The History of the South Wales Borderers: The Great War 1914-1918' by CT Atkinson has verry detailed accounts on the 4th Bn.... On 1st Dec the Bn was down to 15 Officers and 231 ORs. Prior to 7th Dec a draft of 3 Officers and 110 men arrived along with one Officer (Lt Buchanan) with 72 recovered sick. They relieved the Wiltshires in the firing line on 15th Dec and the morning of 19th found it and the Cheshires alone in the 40th Bde front line trenches. AT this stage the Bde was holding the middle of the Division's line directly opposite Scimitar Hill just south of Sulajik Farm. Soon after dusk the Cheshires withdrew leaving the 4th SWB alone in the front trenches. The 4th SWB started moving back at 7 pm (MG Section) followed an hour later by Col Beresford and 250 men leaving Capt Cahusac with 6 Officers and 70 picked men to patrol the otherwise empty trenches for another two hours before they in turn retired.

"It was 3 a.m. (December 20th) when the last of the 4th SWB steamed out of Suvla Bay".

The tone of the history (and its level of detail) certainly doe not indicate any casualties on 19th Dec or 7th Jan. I can only imagine that at a later date after they left they decided that men who were MIA were in fact KIA and reflected that in the final reckoning. To me that seems to be the only explanation. Similarly any men who were wounded and subsequently died of wounds who were already in the evacuation chain might have been summarised for the date of final departure.

The 4th Bnreturned to the Peninsula on 29th Dec......to Helles, landing at V Beach and taking over trenches at 8 p.m. the next day (Dec 30th).. Interestingly they were posted adjacent to the 2nd Bn SWB who provided them with lunch. This was the only meeting of the Battalions throughout the war. the trenches were much closer to the Turks than at Suvla, being only 120 yards apart. They were shelled every night and drove off a large Turkish patrol on 3rd Jan. On 7th Jan there was a 'violent bombardment' opened up which continued for 4 hours. "Considering the vehemence of the bombardment the 4th [battalion] had escaped lightly with only 30 casualties. Lt Williams a plucky young Officer who though wounded early on had insisted despite the MO's orders, on returning to the firing line, was killed with 9 men. Lt McMullen and 20 men being wounded".....later during the day as the Bn was evacuation "the Turk's only interference with proceedings had cost the battalion its last casualties at Gallipoli, 1 killed and 3 wounded, the latter including the MO Lt Hammond.

In summary, the casualties of the 7th Jan are explained in some detail and the casualties of 29th are (I think a summary of recent MIA's)

I hope this helps...

MG

P.S. Searching Geoff's Search Engine for the dates provides the following:

18th Dec 1915 - One man died at Chatby (Egypt) presumably of wounds.

19th Dec 1915 - two men died. One buried at Green Hill (close to Scimitar Hill) and the other at Lala Baba. Both are consistent with operating at Suvla and Scimitar Hill on or near that date.

25th Dec 1915 - one man died at Pietra (Malta) presumably of wounds

3rd Jan 1916 - one man commemorated on Helles Memorial

7th Jan 1916 - seven men

8th Jan 1916 - two men, both commemorated on Helles memorial.

[GraemeClarke]

Morning Martin,

Cheers, many thanks for the information and for the time and trouble replying.

Regards,

Graeme

[Guest]

Graeme - interestingly Lt WIlliams does not appear in the list. Cross checking with the history appendix 'Roll of Honour' there is no 4th Bn officer by the name of Williams who died. A small mystery. It is possible that he was attached from another SWB battalion, but this would show up on Geoff's search engine. He might possibly have been attached to the 4th SWB from a different regiment.

In the text (p.197) he is referred to as 2 Lt Williams, but in the index it shows him as 2 Lt J P Williams. Using these initials and SWB nothing comes up. Broadening the dates to encompass the whole of the remainder of the War, nothing comes up. I suspect he didn't die.

A small mystery. MG

Edit. Solved. He was 3rd Bn KSLI att 4th Bn SWB.

[Keith_history_buff]

Arthur Nigel Cahusac (1890-1955) came up in a search of the ForcesWarRecords dataset based upon WO 25 series records. His surname is mis-transcribed as Cohusac,

2nd Battalion, Attached 4th Battalion

Archive Reference
WO25/3549

Information
Embarked upon the ship HMHS Delta at Alexandria on 19/06/1916, sailed on 19/06/1916 for the United Kingdom.

More Information
Travelled 1st Class.

 

https://www.fold3.com./publication/1200/uk-wwi-embarkation-records-of-servicemen-1914-1918

 
https://uk.forceswarrecords.com//publication/1200/uk-wwi-embarkation-records-of-servicemen-1914-1918