Help trying to identify war man

[londonlass89]

Im trying to find out more about this man, my Great Granny said it was her Grandfather, both men would ahve been in their mid 40's if they had just joined WW1 so im thinking this is before WW1? I know one of them William Watkins born Clifford/Cusop/Hay? Herefordshire was missing on the 1891 Census so im thinking he might have been at war around the 1890's. Trying to identify a bit about this war man might help my search but im having trouble, can anybody help?

[Steven Broomfield]

Difficult to say as the picture seems to have been coloured-in, which has obscured the badge.

My money would be on Army Service Corps, but as a very long outside shot (and as I say, it is obscured) it might just be 17th lancers, but I suspect ASC is more likely.

[dundeesown]

Hi Londonlass89 welcome to the Forum.

Do you have any more information on him ?

His Mother or Fathers name ? one or two records in the Service and pension records to men of that name from Herefordshire and ages are about right,so a bit more information may help.

Gary

[londonlass89]

Well..

Name: William Watkins

Born: c.1869 in either Clifford/Cusop, or Hay, Herefordshire (It changed on each census)

Fathers name is William Watkins (may have died around 1880 in Clifford)

He didnt get married till 1896 to a Sarah Jane Brooks nee Seaborne

He grew up living with his Grandmother (fathers mother) Mary Ann Watkins (b. c1819)

Im assuming he was involved in the war around the 1890's as he doesnt appear on any 1891 UK census, i would have thought he would have been too old to be in WW1 but i dont know. Also if it was around 1890's i would assume he would have been living in clifford/hay, brecon/hereford area or it maybe the ww1 he would have been living in hay or llanbradach/pontypridd maybe. All i have is this photo to go on and he becomes more of a mystery every day.

[kenf48]

Hello and welcome to the forum - have you looked at the parent site, the Long Long Trail? http://www.1914-1918.net

It helps if you understand some of the records that can be searched, and as mentioned above what you already know. There are many William Watkins in the medal index cards who were attached to the ASC (as Stephen has said odds on favourite from the uniform). He may have been a driver (horse transport) if we're right, so his peacetime occupation could give a clue.

I'm not an expert but the uniform pattern and bandolier seem right for someone involved in horse transport around 1914,. From the quality of the picture it's difficult to say whether or not he's wearing spurs (in the smaller picture he could be but in the bigger one it may just be grass!). It's also possible the man next to him is carrying a riding crop in his right hand (you can just see the loop). There's no indication he's served overseas yet and had he been in a previous campaign (e.g. the South African Wars) we might expect to see medal ribbon(s).

Ken

[KevinBattle]

Hi there londonlass

Perhaps some of the confusion is due to the fact that the photo looks too young to be a 45+ year old for WW1 and doesn't look of the right period to be 1890-1900.

Could it perhaps be the FATHER of your grandmother?

The Wiliam Watkins you identify was aged 40, (birth about 1871) living in Cusop in 1911 stating he was born in Clifford, both close to Hay on Wye, on the border with Wales.

His occupation as a timber feller could have involved using a team of horse to drag the fallen trees away to a saw mill.

They'd been married for 15 years (as you say, 1896) and had 5 children, one dying prior to 1911 and 1 living away from home, leaving Gertrude, Edgar and Lucy at home.

From the three children, we can establish that he was at home in 1897/8; 1899/1900 and 1903/4.

The 1901 Census appears to have these parents but with 3 young children, Phoebe (b about 1897), William J (born about 1895) and George H 1 month old.

That doesn't quite fit with the 1911 information if this is the same family, with two girls born the same year but named differently.

Be that as it may, it's not helping resolve your question about the soldier.It might help others help you, though

[londonlass89]

Hi Kenf48 & Kevinbattle,

Thank you for your info

Kenf48, going by what you said about the ASC i did happen to find the right man, and it was the William Watkins i was after, im still shocked that he would have been in his mid 40's during the war but to me he does look older (probably due to the stern face on him in the picture, haha).

Im now having trouble finding info to do with the Medal Index card i found, cant seem to find a death record, where he died or what the information in the Medal Card means..

[kenf48]

The next of kin of the soldier above was living in Cardiff (probably around early 1920s) when the medals were despatched. Why do you think it was this William Watkins?

There is a full guide to interpreting the cards on the LLT (as referred to above) 'On the trail of a Tommy'

http://www.longlongt...dal-index-card/

The R4 prefix to his number means 'Remounts' http://www.1914-1918...C_Remounts.html

He is also on the Silver War Badge Roll ('SWB List' on the card) once again http://www.longlongt...-badge-records/

The SWB Rolls are on Ancestry which you seem to have access to http://search.ancest....aspx?dbid=2456

The date of award of the badge corresponds to his date of discharge shown on the card i.e.'Disch(arged) 14.4.(19)16' and the roll shows it was a result of sickness (rather than wounds). If it is him it also shows he enlisted 22nd March 1915 which may date your photograph and the fact he was in the remount service may narrow down the location.

Ken