Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Chinese Labour Corps - Medal Entitlements & reasearch...


Laird of Camster

Recommended Posts

Ladies/Gentleman, I`ve surfed the forum, but can`t seem to find what I`m looking for. To that end can anyone advise me of the following. Point 1 - Am I right in thinking that the Chinese Labour Corps would be entitled to both BWM & VICTORY medals? Point 2 - Is it possible to research medals to this unit, I think understand that service papers might not exist, but is there a roll or similar where by a name at least can be ascertained?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin

The medal rolls for the CLC aren't online but are available to look at in Kew.

WO 329/2374 Chinese Labour Corps miscellaneous: medal rolls CLC/101A. Pages 1-301. British War Medal and Victory Medal. C 373

WO 329/2375 Chinese Labour Corps miscellaneous: medal rolls CLC/101A2. Pages 302-619. British War Medal and Victory Medal. C 374

WO 329/2376 Chinese Labour Corps miscellaneous: medal rolls CLC/101A3. Pages 620-920. British War Medal and Victory Medal. C 375

WO 329/2377 Chinese Labour Corps miscellaneous: medal rolls CLC/101A4. Pages 921-1240. British War Medal and Victory Medal. C 376

WO 329/2378 Chinese Labour Corps miscellaneous: medal rolls CLC/101A4; CLC/101A5. Pages 1241-1560. British War Medal and Victory Medal. C 377

WO 329/2379 Chinese Labour Corps miscellaneous: medal rolls CLC/101A5; CLC/101A6. Pages 1561-1880. British War Medal and Victory Medal. C 378

WO 329/2380 Chinese Labour Corps miscellaneous: medal rolls CLC/101A6; CLC/101A7. Pages 1881-2200. British War Medal and Victory Medal. C 379

WO 329/2381 Chinese Labour Corps miscellaneous: medal rolls CLC/101A7. Pages 2201-2520. British War Medal and Victory Medal. C 380

WO 329/2382 Chinese Labour Corps miscellaneous: medal rolls CLC/101A7; CLC/101A8. Pages 2521-2840. British War Medal and Victory Medal. C 381

WO 329/2383 Chinese Labour Corps miscellaneous: medal rolls CLC/101A8. Pages 2841-3152. British War Medal and Victory Medal. C 382

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of the Chinese Labour Corps labourers received the Bronze British War Medal only. These medals do not bear the recipients name, just their serial number and C.L.C but this information can be gleaned from the Medal Rolls mentioned above. Be aware that the CLC Bronze BWMs have been copied/faked over recent years.

Sepoy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of the Chinese Labour Corps labourers received the Bronze British War Medal only.

Hello sepoy

As awarded to British soldiers, the British War Medal was silver, the Victory Medal was bronze. Was there perhaps a separate bronze version of the BWM for "followers"?

Ron

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From memory about 110000 British War Medals were struck in bronze and awarded to "Native" Labourers etc. One of the largest units to receive them was the Chinese Labour Corps. Other units include various Indian Labour Corps Units; South African Native Labour Corps (High Commission Territories); Egyptian Labour Corps; Maltese Labour Corps; Macedonian Labour Corps; Ceylon Sanitary Company to name a few. I even have an example awarded to a Tailor in Cole's Scouts which was a small East African unit raised by Berkeley Cole of "Out of Africa" Fame.

Recipients did not receive the Victory Medal.

Sepoy

post-55476-0-53116800-1376239239_thumb.j

post-55476-0-96095000-1376239251_thumb.j

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of the Chinese Labour Corps labourers received the Bronze British War Medal only. These medals do not bear the recipients name, just their serial number and C.L.C but this information can be gleaned from the Medal Rolls mentioned above. Be aware that the CLC Bronze BWMs have been copied/faked over recent years.

Sepoy

Many thanks Sepoy, I`ll bear that in mind, especially the copied/fakes. I assume then that these medals demand a premium?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would recommend, if purchasing one, to do so from a well known medal dealer or auction house. They range from around £100 to £200 depending on the condition and the unit.

Sepoy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would recommend, if purchasing one, to do so from a well known medal dealer or auction house. They range from around £100 to £200 depending on the condition and the unit.

Sepoy

Thanks for the tip makes perfect sense!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its an interesting point about the medal only bearing their service number. You may have also noticed that their graves only have the service number as well. As I understand it, their actual names were not recorded when they enlisted (not 100% sure of that), and they went through the war being addressed by service number only. Apparently, NCO's would get accustomed to memorizing their numbers and used them like personal names. The In Flander's Fields museum did a conferene on the CLC back in 2010 and there was a publication that came out of it that may still be available.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The In Flander's Fields museum did a conferene on the CLC back in 2010 and there was a publication that came out of it that may still be available.

Dominiek gave me a copy of this book - nice pictures, unfortunately text in some damn foreign language (Dutch?)... ! Happy to look anything up / scan pages etc if anyone is interested though.

James

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

To clear up some of the misconceptions.

1. All Chinese labourers except those convicted of serious crimes (murder etc.) were entitled to a BWM bronze, but not the Victory medal. The medals were sent to eligible recipients or their next of kin by registered post in 1920, but many were returned - undeliverable or unwanted (no room here for the full story).

2. All Chinese were enrolled in the Corps by NAME. Of those who died in Europe and have graves there, all have the name of the deceased on the headstone. Of course, the name is in Chinese characters. (If you get to see a CWGC Chinese grave, the three or four large characters down the centre of the headstone are the man's name). The CWGC registers at the cemeteries list the Chinese labourers buried by name, not number. It is true that some headstones have only a number. Largely, these are modern ones, put there after the originals weathered away or collapsed. In the early days, the CWGC had no means of reproducing the men's names, until new technology became available. Very recently, the names have been reconstituted, but unfortunately some have forever been lost - the romanisations are known from the emdal rolls, but the Chinese characters can't be retrieved from there. (The originals were carved by Chinese labourers from the Corps kept on for a few months specifically for this task. As far as I know, no list in Chinese was kept on paper.) The only exception to this is at St Sever Cemetery Extension, where none of the CLC graves has any Chinese inscription (I don't know why) - though some of them have the man's name in Roman letters.

3. It is true that the labourers were referred to by number - even by their own NCOs. There were 11,072 Wangs, 9,667 Changs in the Corps, so a lot of room for confusion. (Actually the numbers caused confusion, too, but that's another story.)

4, The book produced following the 2010 conference is in French. An English version is promised eventually.

5., The whole of the CLC medal roll (94,000+ names) has been transcribed and is availabe on a database. So, if you know the number you can find the name; if you know the name, you can find the number. Where the Chinese characters are known, these are also included. So are the details concerning whether the man's medal was issued or returned, and if he is is among ther 2,100+ who died in service, where he is buried.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have come across a number of officers who had been fingerprint experts in civilian life, who were drafted into the CLC in order to find a way of identifying the men

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Back then, most Europeans had never encountered any Chinese, and when they did, they found it difficult to distinguish one from another "They all look the same," was a frequent comment. By the same token, in China, in the milieu from which the labourers came, photographs were almost unknown. So, if a family was shown a photograph of someone, they could not necessarily make a definitive identification. Fingerprinting (which had been used extensively in India under the raj) was seen as an unerring way of objective identification, especially to prevent fraud (there were attempts at impersonation). Most labourers were illiterate, and so their fingerprints served as "signatures"; fingerprints were also used to identify victims of bombardments. Scotland Yard played its part, lending experts in the field; one of the leading security officers was Cecil Lees (later drafted into the security service in Ireland, and murdered there in around 1922). Each Chinese labourer was provided with an identification booklet, which included his fingerprints, It is recorded that the labourers had not known about fingerprints before theirs were taken when they joined the CLC, and were intrigued that each one was unique.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, Cecil Lees is an old friend of mine - see my notes on him and his death - click for Cecil Lees . If you can add anything I would be grateful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Absolutely fascinating. I have nothing to add. I would take issue with a couple of details in the link to the CLC, though.

By the terms of this contract…I, the undersigned coolie recruited by the Weihaiwei Labour Bureau, declare myself to be a willing labourer’ Wording of contract signed by finger print by all Chinese labourers. The Royal Asiatic Society says that Scotland Yard still has the fingerprints in their files.

*** I've checked with Scotland Yard and they say they haven't got these. (it doesn't mean they haven't got them, but that's the party line, anyway.)

From WFA Web Site. On the 30th December 1916 an agreement was signed between the British and the Chinese Governments for the employment of Chinese men for a labour force on the Western Front.

*** Not exactly true, though the Chinese had to approve the conditions offered, because of the 1904 Agreement for labourers going to South Africa. There were several weeks of negotiations before the Chinese were satisfied, inasmuch as they could be, because the British always had the upper hand. The British carried on recruiting even in the absence of a Chinese accord.

From 1917 onwards, large numbers of Chinese (altogether 100,000) were recruited by the British in Shantung Province, China, as volunteers under military discipline.

*** There are 94,000 names on the medal roll. The recruitment was not only in Shandong, but also in Hebei (then called Chihli).

Recruitment in Shantung Province, largely from the town of Weihaiwei,

*** Very few labourers were recruited from Weihaiwei. Men from elsewhere went there, through, because China proper was neutral, so anyone who wanted to enrol had to do so in British territory, where they were "deemed British". Weihaiwei itself had a very small population, and there weren't many men there of the right age, and needing the kind of income the labourers would earn. The families in Weihaiwei made small fortuines in supplying the Corps.

The first batch of volunteers left by sea for Le Havre, France, in January 1917

*** The first ship arrived in Plymouth, and the labourers went from England by train/ferry to France.

Conditions of work for the Chinese Labour Corps on the Western Front was rather onerous even for the time, with contracts stipulating a seven-day working week of 10-hour days.

*** Not as onerous as one might think. Even farm labourers in England worked similar hours before 1919. And the labourers, in addition to their wage (equivalent to about 1/3rd of a British private's wage, and much more than they could earn in China), had family allowances, and free food, board, clothing and "lighting and fuel, and medical attendance". Their life wasn't easy, but then whose was in northern France at the time? I challenge the prevailing commentaries accusing the British of imposing starvation wages, the death penalty for "minor infractions" and other excesses. It was in nobody's interest to have an ineffective workforce, especially one brought half way across the world for the war effort.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the clarification. As you probably gathered my expertise is more with murders in Ireland, than with Chinese labourers. As so little has been written about the CLC, I put together a bit of that background in order to understand why and what Lees was doing in Ireland.

I have amended the noes on the CLC.

I could never work out whether Lees was murdered because he IRA thought that he was going to fingerprint them, or because he was doing Secret Service work which had nothing really to do with fingerprinting!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gregory, Thank you for posting on this and setting me straight. It is an interesting topic and I hope you will keep sharing what you find out!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 years later...

Hi,

Re-surrecting this topic, seven years on...

I did a small exhibition in 2017 for that, in Nov 2016, I downloaded two pages from the CLC medal roll showing the details of a couple of chaps who signed their trench art. 

I can only assume this was from NA but now that I come to replicate that research for two further CLC individuals, I cannot find the roll online. 

This 2013 conversation indicated that they were not online at that time, but they must have been in 2016... 

Any suggestions?  One of the pages I downloaded is below, by way of illustration (or evidence, to prove this did actually happen!!).

I thought, this weekend with NA's free access, I could have found them, but have failed miserably...

J

CLC 38904.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...