Corporal H A Cope 7th Queen's Own Hussars

[David Ingleby]

I am researching material for a book on the soldiers from Weedon Bec in Northamptonshire who died as a result of The Great War, I have a query on where the 7th QO Hussars fought.

Corporal Henry Albert Cope served in the 7th Queen's Own Hussars being posted as missing on May 13 1915 and presumed dead on June 3rd 1916

He is remembered on the Menin Gate with 2 other members of the 7th Hussars and his medal roll index card infers he fought on the Western Front as does the Soldiers Died in the Great War database.

However, from the records of the 7th QO Hussars, it appears they didn't leave India until 1917 and then went to Mesopotamia.

As a relative newcomer to military history, I am more than a little confused! I am sure I am missing something blindingly obvious, and can only hope some of you learned scholars will let a poor tyro down gently!

[Steven Broomfield]

That is a mystery: I'd wonder if he was attached to another regiment in the Indian cavalry Corps. Chances are that when the regiments mobilised to go to France, those left behind provided men to make up numbers. Trouble is, I'd not know where to start to say which.

[archangel9]

Also killed on the same date and on the Menin Gate -

BATES, STANES GEOFFREY

Rank:

Captain

Date of Death:

13/05/1915

Age:

30

Regiment/Service:

7th (Queen's Own) Hussars

formerly Adjt. North Somerset Yeomanry

Panel Reference

Panel 5.

Memorial

YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL

Additional Information:

Son of Charlotte Thaxter Bates, of Donnington Hall, Ledbury, Herefordshire, and the late Gilbert T. Bates.

John

[archangel9]

Capt.Bates MIC has "att. N. Som. Yeo.". Is it possible that your man was also attached to the North Somerset Yeomanry?

http://www.1914-1918.net/nsomerset.htm

1/1st North Somerset Yeomanry

August 1914 : moved with brigade to Sussex after mobilising but was then ordered independently to France, landing on 3 November.

13 November 1914 : came under orders of 6th Cavalry Brigade in 3rd Cavalry Division.

13 May 1915 : regiment suffered heavy losses in defending a German attack near Bellewaarde (Ypres)

[archangel9]

The Times casualty list published 22/5/1915 confirms Captain Bates killed while attached to the North Somerset Yeomanry. I haven't found Cpl. Cope in the casualty lists.

John

[Steven Broomfield]

Sorry, should have looked sooner: Bickersteth's History of the 6th Cavalry Brigade confirms Captain Bates' appointment and death. However, it doesn't help with the original question: how did those men of the 7th end up there? I can't see any reason why they would have been with the NSY; I can only assume that for some reason they were with another unit, but which I cannot suggest, though an Indian Establishment regiment makes sense.

[David Ingleby]

Thanks, guys, for your efforts. I have managed to solve half of the query today in a visit to TNA.

I looked at the original Medal Roll register under the reference given on the index card and found that Corp. Cope was one of getting on for 50 or so members of the 7^th (Queen’s Own) Hussars who were for some reason or another attached to Royal Horse Guards from the date they embarked for France in October 1914.

Just need to finds out the reason now! May have been something to do with Household Composite Regiments, but then again, perhaps not.

I have written to the Hussars Regimental Museum in Warwick to see if they can shed some light on the matter and will post again if a suitable reason is found.

[Steven Broomfield]

I am sorry: never occurred to me. When war started, the Household Cavalry (1st Life Guards, 2nd Life Guards, Royal Horse Guards) formed a Composite Regiment for overseas service. However, in late August, it was decided to raise a Brigade (the 7th, for the 3rd Cavalry Division) from the Houshold Cavalry, so the three regiments were expanded to full strength. To do this it was necessary to rope in Reservists from Line Cavalry regiments. From the Story of the Household Cavalry (Vol III), it is clear that Dragoon and Dragoon Guard reservists went to the 1st LG, Lancers to the 2nd LG, and Hussars to the Blues.

Then, looking at the Roll of Honour we see that 4801, Private Cope, HA, 7th Hussars, was killed with the Blues. If you wish, I can photograph the relevant pages cvering the action in which he died - PM me an e-mail address.

I am sorry: it never struck me to look at that route. Simply put, your man was a pre-war soldier, recalled to the colours for the war and as his regiment was in India he was sent where he was most needed.

[David Ingleby]

Many thanks for that Steve, e-mail address has been pm'd to you. I knew about the Composite Regiments as another of our guys went into the 1st Composite Regiment from the Life Guards.

[Steven Broomfield]

PM received. I'll do it at the weekend.

[Dumpy]

Hi David,

As previously noted, Henry Albert Cope was a pre-war regular & reservist. He had also seen service with the 7th Hussars during the Boer War, being awarded the Queen's South Africa Medal with clasps for Cape Colny, Orange Free State, Transvaal, South Africa 1901 & South Africa 1902.

Regards,

Paul

[Guest]

Gentlemen

I have in my possession Henry Cope's Army Form 104-82A if anybody would like a copy. It was handed to me by a family friend (and great great grandson of Henry)who asked if I could do a little research, however it appears that you have beaten me to it. 

Does anyone have more details of his military service before WW1, I'm guessing India with the 7th.

Rob

[Matlock1418]

Rob,

Welcome to GWF

You very often get more than you asked for from GWF!

So also ...  just in case you don't know ...

Thanks to the Western Front Association / Ancestry (Fold 3) there is a Pension Ledger and a Pension card for 

Cpl Henry Albert COPE, 4801, 7th Hussars - Missing 15.5.15

His widow Florence Minnie b.22.1.86 of South Street Lower, Weedon got awarded 28.12.15 or 6.1.16 [depending on which record you read] a pension of 23/- per week from 17.1.16 plus an earlier 50F payment 15.12.15 

Four children: Rose Alice b.10.3.07, Florence Gladys b.11.3.09, Chas. Henry b.16.4.11 and John Albert b.22.5.14 [pension for each child would have normally been payable until their 16th birthday so her pension would have been reducing over time but there is no obvious indication on the pension record that their mother had remarried or died / complicated things that way, nor young deaths.  That said a Gen Form 37a was sent out in 1920 and duplicate in 1921 (I've no idea what that form was for) and there is a note from 1923 "No action" = ???]

Sorry I can't add to his earlier career.

Good luck, hope your friend finds the info from GWF interesting.

:-) M

[Guest]

Thank you so much for this information. Yesterday I was actually holding the birth certificate of Rose Alice

Rob