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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

1914 christmas tin


goldmax 007

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Good Morning Everyone......

There has been a book published entitled "The Great War Medal Collectors Companion by Howard Williamson, Privately Published, ISBN-978-0-9527544-4-2" which has a chapter on the Gift Tins, Page 564 to 570..... This gives a list of who got what and when, including numbers, issued between 1914 and 1920......

1. The Navy - 255,271

2. The Army

France and Belgium - 355,716

Wounded in France and Belgium - 89,165

Next of Kin, 1914 Casualties - 5,000

French Mission - 4,600

Troops at Home including Commonwealth - 1,337,889

3. Indian Troops - 294,000

4. Canadian Troops - 70,000

5. Australian Troops - 53,300

6. South African Troops - 42,647

7. New Zealand Troops - 19,915

8. Other Colonies - 72,086

9. Nurses - 1,500

Mike

Edited by QSAMIKE
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Mike,

If your friend has time I'd be very interested to see pictures of the monogrammed pipes for reference purposes.

thanks

Mark

Good Morning Everyone......

A friend of mine has done a big study over the last 20 or 25 years and has written several monologues on the tins and their contents..... There were several different contents for the tins, the Smoking Packages, A Writing Kit, A Sewing Kit, Hard Candy and Spice Kit (for Indian Troops) and others that he has been able to identify and catalogue...... He has 2 of the pipes that I have seen and they are both marked with the Princess Mary cypher......

Mike

P.S. He even has one made from Sterling Silver that was from a group special made for the Indian Princes.....

That's a pity- got other books by him. This book shows the PM marked pipes? Regards, Paul.

Paul, not as far as I am aware. I do have the book. Mark

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Good Afternoon Everyone

Sorry for taking so long as I was having some Computer Problems.......

Here is the reply from my friend.......

And I Quote:
I will have to look up the photos which will take a bit of time, but I actually have two pipes with the cypher stamped on their stem. How I can across them is interesting because, to my knowledge, these have never been documented on the net, or by any museum including the Imperial War Museum.
I started collecting the Mary boxes after meeting a long-time antiques dealer at the Portobello antique market in London (he has since retired to Ireland). I bought several of my rarer boxes (i.e. rarer contents) over the years, now many, and quite a few subsequent visits from this gentleman. At that time, he had been collecting and dealing in these boxes for over thirty years and knew a lot about them. I asked him about the pipes, specifically if there were any identifying marks on the pipes. He replied that the pipes came in a myriad of shapes and sizes, large and small, from the available stocks of eight different manufacturers. Most of them were, and are not identifiable, per se, unless you knew their exact provenance and association to a particular Mary tin. However, he did mention that in the very early distribution of the pipes, a number (I have no idea of the numbers other than over 700,000 were distributed with the boxes) were stamped on their stems with Princess Mary's cypher. He indicated that he had seen a couple of examples during his years of dealing with these and I think he also had one in his personal collection. I don't know if a particular manufacturer stamped their pipes or if the Mary Gift Fund Committee started marking the pipes before distribution, but this practice obviously was not continued for all of the pipes. However, some made it out into the distribution. I found my first example on Ebay. Shortly after I returned home from that particular trip, I decided to take a look at Ebay offerings of old pipes. Coincidentally, in one lot of two pipes being offered, the accompanying photo showed as suggestion of markings on the stem of one of them. I asked the vendor what they were. She replied she didn't know what the marking meant but that it was an 'M' surmounted by a crown. She also indicated that it had belonged to her grandfather and was used by him during World War I while serving with the British Army. So, of course, with the information I had, I bid and bought the pipes. My second one was purchased at the local annual Blue Mountain Antique Show. A vendor had a bucket full of old pipes for sale. Upon rummaging through them, I came across a second example with the same cypher stamped into the stem. This cypher was of a slightly different size (the pipe was smaller than my first) but was essentially identical - a case of my mind's eye being tuned to recognizing the cypher. Since then (about 10 years now), while I have acquired several other 'Mary' pipes and their associated boxes, I have not seen marked versions.
As I mentioned, it is true that these have never been documented, and so of course, there will be a lot of individuals, many quite knowledgeable, who will categorically deny their existence but from my experience as recounted above, I believe them to exist. A lot has been written over the years by various authors, but most of the descriptions seem to be more or less identical and probably derive from one or two earlier sources, in particular a very comprehensive accounting by Paul Hinckley. I have found, as a result, that there is still a lot that is undocumented.
A couple of cases in point. I have another box that has small cigars in it. Again, this has never been documented but there was a letter in the box, written and signed by the original owner, who indicated the box (and cigars) was issued to him, as well as to other fellow officers, at Christmas 1914. I don't think this was a large distribution but given the provenance, it is still valid in my mind, and probably related to the fact that many of the boxes distributed later had a variety of alternate gifts in them, as stocks of the original contents were depleted. Secondly, spice tins were distributed to Indian troops, yet in my research both on the net and contacting museums worldwide who 'should' know, no one was able to give me a description of this spice tins. Again, on ebay, I came across an offering that was described as a military spice tin from World War 1. Upon asking the vendor for more details, she replied that the tin had belonged to her grandfather who served with the Indian Army Corps in World War 1. She said that while she didn't have details, he somehow received the tin as a gift early in the war and carried it throughout the war. While the provenance is clear, the evidence is still circumstantial but compelling and I am almost completely certain that this is one of those tins.
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post-7141-0-84893800-1392725405_thumb.jp

Here are my two PM pipes, both came with complete with PM boxes etc and I've had them for around 25+ years. One is identically marked to the pipe shown in the OP, albeit with a straight stem. To my eyes the maker of the pipe mount looks to be 'VGV' rather than 'UGU', though in old english lettering it is difficult to read. I am assuming the EP in the diamond marking means 'Electro Plated' ie a generic marking.

The second and larger pipe has a silver mount with Birmingham hallmark for 1913. It also has the makers initials 'LB' I have been unable to identify this company but they are known to have made pipe mounts, cigarette holders and napkin rings. Interestingly, this pipe has had a neatly done hand carving applied to the bowl. '1914 Great Britain, France, Belgium' with a representation of a handshake between. The pipe and the mount also carry the trademark of the pipemaker, originally 'Blumfeld's Best Briars' but at the time of its manufacture in 1913/14 then known as 'Britain's Best Briars' The BBB marking in a diamond is said to be the very first trademark applied to a pipe, and according to 'Pipedia' (yes, really there is a wiki for pipes) it is said to be the oldest British trademark still in current use. The pipes are now made by Cadogan but still carry the BBB logo.

Both pipes are unused and quite clearly kept as souvenirs.

On a wider note I have never personally seen a pipe with a crest but I'm sure they exist. I have a vague recollection of once seeing a photo of such a beast, but I can't recall now where I saw it. I have seen quite a few complete sets over the years and though similar in terms of quality the pipes are of varying sizes and styles.

Regards

Tocemma

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Good Evening Everyone.....

Just returned home from the monthly meeting of our local Military Historical Society......

My friend brought in a copy of his monologue about the tins and I must say that I was quite impressed.....

He also brought Three different pipes that were in the Christmas Tin, one regular pipe and two with the cypher / monogram of Princess Mary.....

He also stated that he would like to chat with anyone who is interested in the tins but does not want to post his email addy here ...... So......

If you are interested please PM me with your addy and I will pass it on to him.....

Mike

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Mike,

Is he willing to share an image of the Monogrammed Pipe via you of course. I think it would be excellent reference for forum members.

Thanks

Mark

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An interesting thread this. I was aware that there were tins for smokers and non smokers but not all the other versions as well. I was also under the (mistaken?) impression that smokers received cigarettes and tobacco and non smokers received sweets/chocolate and a bullet pencil and all received a message and a picture of? of who? The Royal Family/Princess Mary?

Any chance of seeing the PM cipher on a pipe?

I presume the pipes were not packed in the tins as there does not appear to be enough room for them? What was used to light the pipe/ciggies?

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Gentlemen.....

I have passed on the request for the photos, the cypher is located on the stem just behind the bowl and not on the band between the bowl and mouthpiece......

Mike

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  • 4 weeks later...
Guest lostfamilies

I have 2 tins one with contents of Tobacco, Cigarettes pencil which is like a bullit & the card

the other one is empty but i only noticed the other day when taking photos that the head is slightly different on each

I am not sure how to add photos so can't show the two tins closed

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi Folks,

For interest I have posted a couple images of the tinder lighter which might be of interest. This particular one bears the M monogram and is dated 'Xmas Fund 1914' along with the Asprey (retailer) mark on the reverse side.

Nick

post-91831-0-27193900-1397330727_thumb.j

post-91831-0-91496200-1397330728_thumb.j

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I presume the pipes were not packed in the tins as there does not appear to be enough room for them? What was used to light the pipe/ciggies?

The gifts were packed in cardboard boxes for despatch.

GiftTin1.jpg

Cheers,

GT

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