Uniform query - MGC or 19th Hussars or ?

[Batan6]

I am trying to figure out the uniform on the attached photo which I believed to be my father but am not now sure so wondered if anyone could help me.

He was transferred from the 19th Hussars to the 9th brigade of the Machine Gun Corps (Cav) and went to France in June 1915 but his service record no longer exists. The cap badge, though not clear, does not seem to even be the right shape for MGC or Hussars and the ‘flags’ on the left sleeve cause me more confusion. The only positive point as far as cavalry is concerned is that he is wearing spurs and carrying a whip.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[jay dubaya]

Welcome to the forum Bantan6

The cap badge kinda looks like the PoW plumes and the crossed flags badge of a signaler can be seen on the lower sleeve

Jon

[Khaki]

Hello Batan6,

I keep coming back to your post, but every time it has me stumped, the cap badge I do not recognise, as you say it does not match either the hussars or MGC, at first glance I would have thought that he was artillery (signaler) but I think the lanyard is on the wrong side for artillery? the uniform blouse seems to be an early pattern looking at the number of buttons and the collar. Maybe it is not who you think it is, and the Hussars/MGC thoughts are a distraction from what the badge ID could be. Is there anyone else that you know of that has service you could relate it to?

khaki

[Batan6]

Thank you Jon and khaki for your responses.

I've found a brother in the RE, DLI, RFC and back to RE but again the service record is missing. However I don't think that the cap badge matches any of these. It would be good to find out who this is even if it isn't my father.

Thanks again,

Batan6

[squirrel]

Looks like it could be a Middlesex Regiment badge. The lanyard is inconclusive although it should have been worn on the left and was changed to the right shoulder after WW1.

He is certainly dressed for mounted duties and as has been said wears a Signallers crossed flags proficiency badge. Could be battalion transport?

[Steven Broomfield]

Is it a Canadian jacket? It seems to have rather more buttons than one might expect on a British uniform.

[Black Sapper]

Wel spotted Mr Broomfield ..... strikes me that cap badge with a rampant unicorn(?) right side & a rampant lion(?) the other side could well be Canadian or even Australian as they both had Engineers & Garrison Artillery, etc, etc., with that style of badge. But then the Westminster Dragoons & Yeomanry also had rampant animals around a centre piece????

But, from what I can see, the Blouse - 7 buttons as per Canada - top pockets scalloped & pleated & secured by buttons, as per Canada - stand up collar looks like CEF uniform - plus he has gauntlet style cuffs as per Canada ...... (see attached pic).

Does he have a pair of leather gloves in his right hand? Might be significant along with the spurs, riding breeches & puttees? He's wearing ankle boots as did the Canadians. His shoulder straps don't look coloured, they look plain which indicates to me that this was taken after the phasing out of the colour straps over the 1st year of the war?

White lanyard = Royal Canadian Artillery - by tradition worn on the right shoulder?

[Batan6]

My goodness! Thanks for the suggestions which I find a little suprising! This photo was taken by Thirlwell & Co of " Stockton, Middlesboro, West Hartlepool, Newcastle, Darlington & Bishop Auckland" so as my father came from Darlington I assumed the picture to be of him.

Batan6

[Steven Broomfield]

Possibly a relative who had emigrated to Canada and returned home on leave, and then had his picture taken as a memento for the folks back home.

[Batan6]

Following your lead with more research it certainly looks as if it is a Canadian uniform but for the moment doesn't fit in with any of my family history. Chances of getting any further with it seem remote but I am very grateful to all of you for your help.

Very many thanks

Batan6

[Filbert70]

Hello Batan6

could I ask the name of your father?

Thanks

Ian

[Black Sapper]

As a little project & because i'm like that & love a puzzle - I did an MIC search using just 19th Hussars & Machine Gun Corps combination ........ Well! Would you believe that there were over 100 entries from A to W surnames?

I then did just 19th Hussars combined with Machine Gun Corps Cavalry - which narrowed it down to 47 MIC's from A to Y surnames. (You could probably weed a couple of those out as there are other regiments involved ..... but, sometimes thinking outside of the box can give you a bit of a headache)?

(Mr. Broomfield's fault, he set me off with his idea that there may have been a family member who had emigrated to Canada & I had this silly idea that I could perhaps find a possibility from 1901 to 1914?) Hehehehehe

Guess I'll have to wait for Batan6 to give us his father's name?

[Batan6]

. One brother emigrated to Canada but not until the 1930s and previously was a mining engineer in S Africa, returned to the UK 1914/15. Another I believe was in the RN. Earlier generation migrants had no offspring..............!

Thanks for your interest

Batan6

Edited 30 October , 2019 by Batan6

[Steven Broomfield]

In the words of the great Toyah Wilcox, It'th a mythtery.

[Khaki]

I have now noticed the two rings on the snake belt, isn't that consistent with Canadian "Oliver" pattern equipment?

khaki

[Black Sapper]

Correct Khaki but that piccie is just for uniform blouse comparison & is not realted to Batan6's photo.

To follow on from Batan6's last post ......

However, there were Canadian 'Suddes' people in UK & Europe from Canada - for example there's a Corporal William Suddes going back from Liverpool to Canada, with special authority - he was serving with 1st Que. Reg. Depot (Weren't they mounted rifles?) Perhaps your Dad had relatives over in Canada or maybe I've gone off at a tangent & the guy in your photo was a fellow soldier he met during WW1?

Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935

Name: William Suddes

Date of Arrival: 27 Aug 1917

Vessel: Megantic

Search Ship Database:

Port of Arrival: Quebec

Port of Departure: Liverpool, England

Roll: T-4817

But .. it's always worth searching that little bit more?

[Khaki]

Sorry about the confusion, lost track of continuity, think I will go and have a coffee or two

khaki

[Batan6]

William (b1879 NBD) was too old to be the one in the photo but found his son's (Andrew Christopher born Co Durham age 18y 9m in Jan 1916) Attestation paper for Canadian overseas Expeditionary Force so will follow that up.

Thanks again

Batan6

[Steven Broomfield]

On the basis that it seems likely this chap is Canadian, might it be worth either re-posting the picture, or changing the threat title to reflect that fact? If the word "Canadian" were to be mentioned it might attract a whole diffrerent set of people.

Just a thought.

[Batan6]

Thanks Mr Broomfield for the suggestion - it's done!

[Black Sapper]

Batan6 - try contacting this guy on Ancestry as he has your Dad & a whole overseas Suddes family on his tree .....

gsuddes1971uk2000nj

Pine Hill, NJ, originally from Stockton-on-Tees, UK

Real name: Gareth Suddes

link to his tree is -

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/21615682/person/1112342477?pgNum=1

Link to your Dad in his tree is -

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/21615682/person/1112343642

good luck

[Batan6]

Thanks Black Sapper 

Edited 30 October , 2019 by Batan6