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Remembered Today:

Sender (?) of telegram - PROCLICAS - can anyone identify?


Tom Morgan

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A friend has asked for help with a telegram relating to a soldier who died as a POW. The telegram was sent/received in 1917 and reads:

P.M. 20th Cancel Report on list form 234 Date 13th October showing 18154 Stewart Royal Scots, Prisoner of War, previous report dead on list from 210 correct.

Proclicas.

Does anyone know what "Proclicas" might mean?

Tom

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As far as I am aware it is an authentication code-word.

Steve.

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I think it means something like "direct from the field", and is spelled Proelicas. (Ave)

H

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Here is another one.

Post Office Telegraph from the War Office, London to Woolwich Dockyard received 10:15pm: 62 Cas P77317 OC 23 Casualty CLG Station, France telegraphs 21st August 1917. Dangerously wounded 89791 A. Valerie and 16207 Cpl. A. Fielding C. Batt 165 Bde RFA. Proclicas

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Thank you so much for the correct spelling Hazel.

I spent a long time searching the forum last night because I was sure I could remember this being explained in the past, but just couldn't find it.

Now I have found it and to my surprise - I actually answered the question.

It was a telegraphic address for the War Office department dealing with casualties. It is from the Latin "proelium" meaning battle and the abbreviation "cas" meaning casualty.

And to give credit where it is due I learnt this from Alan Greveson's World War Forum. LINK

He was asked this question several times and this was his answer. (Search for Proelicas to see examples).

CGM

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Thank you so much for the correct spelling Hazel.

I spent a long time searching the forum last night because I was sure I could remember this being explained in the past, but just couldn't find it.

Now I have found it and to my surprise - I actually answered the question.

It was a telegraphic address for the War Office department dealing with casualties. It is from the Latin "proelium" meaning battle and the abbreviation "cas" meaning casualty.

And to give credit where it is due I learnt this from Alan Greveson's World War Forum. LINK

He was asked this question several times and this was his answer. (Search for Proelicas to see examples).

CGM

And on many different examples is spelt Proclicas and not Proelicas a common error?

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  • 2 years later...

I am researching Gunner 810622 Frederick Mann b 27/2/1899 in Derby, because his name appeared on a WWI memorial at Ashbourne Road Congregational Church, Derby. Sadly the memorial was destroyed when the church burnt down in 1993. So I thought it was even more important to document the men listed on the memorial, of which we have a photograph.

I have found quite a lot of information about him. I am in contact with his family and I am sending them his military service record, which you can see on Ancestry.co.uk. I am adding a few notes that I hope will help their understanding. I'm a family history researcher, not a military expert, so any analysis of his records would be helpful, if anyone has the time to look at them. (19 pages).

There is a telegram that mentions Proelicas, so thank you for the translation of that term.

The word I'd like some help with is "Ideenland", which is also mentioned in a telegram and in this thread but no translation is mentioned. The telegram seems to be in military and medical terminology. e.g. PUO for Pyrexia (fever) Unknown Origin. He dies of typhoid at 18 years and 6 months in 24/8/17 in the Calais area.

The telegram seems to be addressed to Kingsway, which was and still is an army establishment in Derby, walking distance to the soldier's home. I wonder if the news of his illness was sent to Kingsway and someone from there would "decode" the telegram into layman's language and visit the family. He had enlisted after leaving school at age 14 years 6 months in Sep 1913.

There is also copy of another telegram on his file in plain English addressed to his parents, advising them of his illness.

Thanks in advance.

Karen

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The Army used single words, often concocted or with Latin roots and often of about nine letters, as "telegraphic addresses". A list of those in use in 1914 appears in the August 1914 Army List but neither Proclicas nor Ideenland is among them, so they must have been later additions. The address for the Officer Commanding No.8 District, which handled infantry soldiers' records for the Border Regiment among others, was "Group, Preston" but it is not impossible that Ideenland was introduced to cover the section dealing with casualties. There may have been more than one such code, perhaps to distinguish between officers and men, or between casualties killed, wounded and missing.

The address used by the Secretary of the War Office was "Troopers", and this is the signature seen on the mobilisation telegrams.

Incidentally, Harrods used (and possibly still use) the address "Everything, London."

Ron

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I was reading a number of telegrams regarding the repatriation of escaped prisoners. Each time, they were put in quarantine in Holland and they ended with comments such as; Inform Dirmilint or send to Dirmilint - I thought it was a place in Holland until a few more down the line, it was written in full 'Director of Military Intelligence' :D

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Could Ideenland be "ID Enquiries Land forces" or some such?

sJ

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  • 8 years later...
On 02/08/2013 at 21:59, ss002d6252 said:

Not sure what it means but this site also mentions it in respect of a telegram

http://cowen-ent.co.uk/Cowen%20Tree/fam638.html

Craig

Screenshot2024-06-0723_06_25.png.ce2936ac2ebf570eb5b283debf1c53fa.png

 

An old thread but I have a specific interest in Craig's quote as this chap I have now found has qualified for entry on to the LivepoolPals.com website as he enlisted in the 21/KLR, see https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/311269-pte-richard-brown-31112-klr-more-evidence-he-was-a-pal-please/#comment-3303415 

I know there are other present discussions about the various codes used at the time but has there been any any progress on "proclicas and IDEENLAND" as a pair ?

many thanks

Dave

From AScreenshot2024-06-0723_01_09.png.97746217693787847e3062af4abb8d69.pngnc.

 

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There is a whole other topic on the codes used in telegrams regarding patient conditions. See page 3.

IDEENLAND has more or less been established as Dangerously ILL.

C2 Cas is the WO dept. that received all the sick and wounded information. P55189 is a Progress List on the individual's condition.

In your case 24 GH telegraphed C2 Cas[ualties] who then telegraphed ATTEST Preston which is the Preston infantry record office.

TEW

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On the other thread mentioned by Tew I think we formed the provisional conclusion that IDEENLAND might be a portmanteau word meaning “dangerously ill and visits not permitted”, while IDEIESMO meant simply “dangerously Ill”. There is a document in The Australian Memorial Library in Canberra the title and description of which suggest that it may be a list of the telegraphic codes which were adopted in 1916, including those reporting the condition of men in hospital. @WhiteStarLine has very kindly volunteered to check this for us sometime, but he has been busy with other things recently. We might possibly be able to find a definitive answer in due course however.

Edited by A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy
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1 hour ago, A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy said:

There is a document in The Australian Memorial Library in Canberra the title and description of which suggest that it may be a list of the telegraphic codes which were adopted in 1916, including those reporting the condition of men in hospital. @WhiteStarLine has very kindly volunteered to check this for us sometime, but he has been busy with other things recently. We might possibly be able to find a definitive answer in due course however.

Thanks for that, it will be a top find if it turns out to be the definitive. Still a mystery for "proclicas" as it is in lower case.

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The telegram for 30013 Brown was sent from OHMS War Office London and was sent to Attest Preston.

It is signed off Proelicas which must be part of OHMS WO.

There are variations in these telegrams as IDEENLAND ones are sometimes from KINGSWAY which is the telegraphic address for the casualty department of the WO London IE. the same place.

The rootschat explanation for Battle Casualty makes sense.

You'd have to look at the other IDEENLAND examples in the other post and see if they're all signed off proelicas. It may just be part of C2 Casualties or it may relate to the info coming direct from France rather than through the AG's office.

TEW

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I've just found a reply to Proeclicas from Attest Chatham which makes it more clear what's going on.

TEW

Proeclicas2.jpg.4731dc480381f352d6e06544c6e78c51.jpg

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5 hours ago, TEW said:

I've just found a reply to Proeclicas from Attest Chatham which makes it more clear what's going on.

That's excellent digging TEW, many thanks.

Can we define proeclicas as an address/department/or person in charge at the War Office, London ?

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The outstanding problem is that C2 CAS is a department of the War Office. Proeclicas maybe a sub department of C2 CAS.

C2 CAS seem to deal with all sick/wounded and are the origin of the published Wounded Lists whereas Telegrams using Proeclicas tend to be for those considered Dangerously Wounded or sick Where the information is coming directly from the field.

The telegram origins can be written as;

OHMS War Office or OHMS Kingsway or they omit the OHMS part but they are all one and the same as Proeclicas.

The telegraphic address is 'Kingsway'.

TEW

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