UVF Enlistment papers

[macbun]

Hello.

This is my first post, so hope that its ok and in the correct forum etc.

I am trying to locate any information regarding the following person:

5736 Rifleman Patrick McLaughlin

2nd Bn. Royal Irish Rifles, KIA 27th October 1914 (France) body never recoverd.

Patrick was from Ballycastle Co Antrim and appears in the 1901 census and also appears as a having signed the Ulster covenant.

We think he enlsited in the army in Belfast .

We are lead to believe that Patrick was a member of the UVF prior to WW1 and were hoping there there might be a location that UVF records for that time and area might be held, either privately or in government hands.

If this information helps, It is belived that Patrick was a member of the local Orange lodge, I have contacted them, and despite being very helpful, they can find no trace of him.

Thank you all in advance.

[corisande]

Hi

Afraid not my specialty this area !

Apart from 1911 census, medal index card, looking to see if Ancestry have his enlistment papers

Some of the members know a lot about the UVF and you need to try one of them

[spof]

It might also be worth looking at the Ulster Covenant online at PRONI http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/ulster_covenant.htm

As for his military life.... A date of death that early means he was rither a pre-war regular or a recalled reservist. In October 1914 2RIR were in front of Neuve Chapelle when the neemy noticed the trenches to their left were uniccupied and flanked the battalion. They were forced back about 250 yards into Neuve Chapelle and suffered very heavy losses. ONly 2 officers and about 46 ORs succeeded in getting back out of a total of 5 officers and 250 ORs.

The war diary is available to download from TNA for £3.36.

Glen

[macbun]

Hello and thanks to you both for your helpful replies.

I will see if I get any more replies, if not, then maybe just change the title of the request to see if any experts, or knowledgeable people on the UVF make contact.

Thanks again

[jonathanb2701]

A book called Ballycastle Heroes, by author Robert Thompson, has a page listing 5736 Rifleman Patrick McLaughlin, 2nd Royal Irish Rifles, kia 27/10/14.

It says Patrick was a reservist, who was called up on the outbreak of hostilities, and he had been a member of Ballycastle UVF.

Robert Thompson has produced a very interesting series of books devoted to the war dead, from the towns and villages of North Antrim.

[W.J.Caughey]

Hi Macbun.

I am no expert on Ulster Volunteer Force, (Have you tried PRONI ?). i see there is a lot of U.V.F. details held at Belfast PRONI, its a bit of hit and miss at PRONI, the website index has not much details compared to PRONI in house computer Index, there's nominal rolls for Co Down. Londonderry, also North Antrim, whether this includes Ballycastle not sure. PRONI REF D1238

I have a lots of images taken from Belfast WW1 newspapers which most times gives details if servicemen belonged to UVF/LOL and had a look for 5736 Rifleman Patrick McLaughlin.but never found anything. Like Jonathan says Robert Thompson produce a Ballycastle Heroes book and is mention on this site

http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/RobertThompsonBallycastle.htm .

Robert Thompson has a contact email address on the site and he is a very helpful chap and might have more details on Patrick.

Walter

[macbun]

Hello Jonathan and Walter and thanks for your replies.

At present a trip to the PRONI will have to wait until I am next over in Belfast.

I have the book, Ballycastle Heroes, and spoke to Robert, lovely man and very helpfully.

Unfortunately he was never able to track down any relatives of Patrick McLaughlin (apart from me!). His book contains the one and only photo that we have ever seen, although no one seems to know were it came from. (possibly a death notice in a paper?). I was able to show some of his granddaughters the picture and his jaw line has passed down to a lot of them and their children. They, like myself, were delighted to see what he looked like.

As an aside to this research and although not strictly relevant to this forum, Patrick’s wife Catherine, died in 1915, shortly after giving birth to their fifth child. All the children were fostered to somewhere just outside Coleraine. I still haven’t been able to find to who etc, but it shows you WW1 has such an impact on the lives of the people on the home front.

Thanks again

Paul

[Airshipped]

Curiously, he's the only Patrick McLaughlin in the Earl of Ypres' "Ireland's Memorial Records" though that probably arises from the misspelling of McLaughlin/McLoughlin and all the variations. His Medal Index Card is sparse, as sometimes they can refer to reserve regiments etc but this case appears to be just RIR.

Edited 1 August , 2013 by Airshipped

[macbun]

Hello Sergeant-Major.

Thanks so much for posting the medal record of Patrick. Great to see it.

I am actually in possession of the original three medals for him, including a large round copper disc which is inscribed with his name.

They were originally in a frame with some paperwork, (from memory, I think “signed” by the King). The medal that’s missing from his card is I think referred to as the Mons star. There is also a bar across the ribbon with dates, which I think indicates that he was an “Old Contemptible" although I will be guided by others if that is not the case.

Thanks again

[macbun]

I just had a thought, we know the following…” Patrick was a reservist, who was called up on the outbreak of hostilities, and he had been a member of Ballycastle UVF” This extract is taken for the book Ballycastle heroes.

If Patrick was a reservist, does that mean that he had actually been a soldier, done his time and was then placed into the reserve. If yes, would that mean that his Army enlistment papers would be available. I have his marriage cert and associated paperwork which shows occupation as laborer.

Or

If he was a reservist, was that like the TA of today? Would he be a reserve with a local unit affiliated to the British Army?

Thanks again

[spof]

Some info on the reserves here http://www.1914-1918.net/reserve.htm

A recalled reservist was still in his 12 year commitment to service but had completed his full time service part. Depending on when he enlisted, it was likely to be 7 years full time and 5 years part time but it did chop and change a few times just after the turn of the century.

Unfortunately, his papers from his full time service would have used for his wartime service and then been stored with the others which were lost in 1940.

[macbun]

Hello Spof and thanks for that useful update, it makes sense.

I was thinking of trying to trace my Patrick via his Army pension record. Although he would have still been "in the reserve", would his 7 years full time allow him to claim any pension while in the reserve?

If not, and having died in WW1 (1914), would his wife then be eligable for a widows pension (she died in 1915 so didnt have much time to cliam!). Could I trace info re him via her widows pension cliam do you think?

thanks again advance

[kildaremark]

If he has three medals and served in 1914, surely there is something wrong with the Medal Index Card above? You would also expect to find him serving somewhere in the 1911 census. Mark

[jdoyle]

the 1914 Star (and Clasp) entry is on his Patrick McLoughlin MIC

[macbun]

Hello Mark and Jdoyle and thanks for the reply

I have his three medals in my possession, so they do exist. I think its just a mistake on medal card.

I have located him in the 1911 Census in Ballycastle, its just cant locate him in the 1901 census.

thanks and all the best

Paul

[spof]

Paul

He might have been serving abroad in the Army in 1901. The Army Service Numbers website suggests he enlisted in 1898. Was he old enough to have signed up by then?

Glen

[macbun]

Hello Glen,

I have his death cert , which states that at time of death (in 1914) he was 34, so that would make is DOB circa 1880, so it looks like the suggested enlisted date would match, making him 19 at time of enlistment.

I think by the looks of things, your right, he was "overseas" in 1901, I have his marriage cert from Apr 1909, (St James's Church of Ireland, Ballycastle), it gives his occupation as a labourer. That would fit in with your previous post about being 7 years in full time service and then being realsed into the reserve, hence his occupation then.

[Airshipped]

I'm not sure if this is a mismatch but there's a Private Robert McLaughlin in the UK 1901 Census who is 19 and Irish-born, serving with the Royal Army Medical Corps. He's stationed at the "Provisional Battalion & Imperial Yeomanry, Maida & Mandora Barracks" within the cleaning area. This is at Farnham, Aldershot, Surrey.

[macbun]

Thanks for that Airshipped.

I dont know if Patrick had another forename, however it is possible that he may have one and its been used.

Thanks for looking

all the best

Paul

[Airshipped]

I'm not sure if this is a mismatch but there's a Private Robert McLaughlin in the UK 1901 Census who is 19 and Irish-born, serving with the Royal Army Medical Corps. He's stationed at the "Provisional Battalion & Imperial Yeomanry, Maida & Mandora Barracks" within the cleaning area. This is at Farnham, Aldershot, Surrey.

Ignore this! I was working on several different PMs and threads! I replied earlier in this thread re Patrick McLaughlin. Robert is another story. Mea culpa.

[macbun]

No problem Airshipped.

Thanks any way