"The C.O. thinks all our pilots will be killed "

[Drover]

I wonder if anyone has any info on the sender of this Letter Card which was posted in Farnborough on 27 Aug 14 to what looks like Peishne Road in Birmingham by Roy Holland.

The message inside reads:

"Royal Flying Corps

My Dear Mater,

Have sent a parcel of clothes etc along. Things I am not allowed to have, please keep them till I come home as I shall need them then.

Shall not be able to get a pass to come home and see you as they have been stopped as we are under special war orders and rations and things are very severe.

We have had several bad losses to Pilots. No doubt you have seen it in the papers. The C.O. thinks all our pilots will be killed so our Corps is going to suffer.

No more, this is done in one of the planes.

Love to you and Geo

Roy"

Many thanks.

Jim

[Terry_Reeves]

Jim

It looks like he has a service record at TNA in AIR 79/346/35886. I think the address should be Pershore Road with number 109 being in Stirchley.

TR

[redbarchetta]

Interesting little note, Jim.

How many RFC pilots had we lost by 27th August??

Quite prophetic, though.

James

[centurion]

Interesting little note, Jim.

How many RFC pilots had we lost by 27th August??

Quite prophetic, though.

James

7 aircrew - pilots and observers 3 from direct enemy action and 4 from crashes

[redbarchetta]

Thanks, Cent - mine of information as ever...

[Drover]

Thanks for deciphering the address Tony. I've looked at it for ages, even under a magnifying glass, and couldn't make head or tail of it, even after looking up a list of Birmingham streets. Now that you've mentioned Pershore, its so obvious!

I wonder about the C.O.'s comment though. Would a C.O. say such a thing in August 1914 as his boys went off to war? If he did, why would a young lad would report it back to his mother? I also wonder about Roy's claim to be writing his letter 'in one of the planes' and being under special war orders and rations. How much of this is Roy 'spinning a yarn'.

Any psychologists out there?

Cheers

Jim

[centurion]

Well he was obviously able to get off base to a normal post box.. Unless his CO was working for a German equivalent of a modern psy ops unit it sounds like something he'd be very unlikely to say where he could be overheard by the rank and file and certainly not by his young officers. I think young Roy may have been "bigging it up" or whatever the phrase for this would have been then.

[Neil Mackenzie]

Most of us drive down the Pershore Road on the way to the GWF conference each year - or in my case up and down and up again!

James - do you know where 109 is? I could not see it on the Zoopla property website so it is presumably a commercial property now or a block of flats.

Neil

[centurion]

The London Gazette March 1907 records the death of William Holland of 109 Pershore Rd. He had been trading as a hook manufacturer under the name of McEvoy and Co.," at 194,

Berners-street, Lozells. He was survived by his widow Sarah Holland.

From street view there are residential houses on one side and modernish flats on the other in the part of the street where 109 should be.

[CGM]

In 1911 A Holland family is living at 109 Pershore Road Edgbaston

Head of the house is Sarah HOLLAND, a 63 year old widow. 3 children born alive, 3 still living.

With her are 2 single, adult children, daughter Augusta Leonora LUCENA aged 40 and son Reginald Francis HOLLAND aged 20.

Searching backwards for the third child

1871 Sarah is married to Charles LUCENA with daughter Augusta.

1881 Son Herbert J. LUCENA. (BORN 1873) Sarah is a widow.

1888 Sarah married a William HOLLAND

So the 3 children are accounted for.

Two Roy HOLLAND born after 1888. Neither obvious relations as far as I can see, so far. More could be done, including looking for Geo, but I have no time at the moment, I'm afraid.

CGM

[redbarchetta]

Jim,

Given the swirly writing, could 'Roy' actually be 'Reg'? Reginald Francis Holland sounds the most likely candidate (or maybe he hated Reg, so called himself Roy!)

109 Pershore Rd is not in Stirchley, it will be much closer to town than that. Will be driving down there tomorrow night to go to the Uni so will have a look where 109 is (if it still exists - may have been swallowed up by the cricket ground, or blocks of flats...)

James

[centurion]

Pershore Road was re numbered just before WW1 and according to the 1911 census 109 was in South Stirchley then

[Drover]

Roy could certainly be Reg, given the state of both the writing and my eyesight!

Here it is. Hope it comes through OK.

Jim

[Neil Mackenzie]

Terry

And your erudite contribution to the discussion being....?

The longest journey begins with just one step as they say.

Neil

[Terry_Reeves]

Neil

That's pathetic, I didn't see you identifying the address, rather more jumping on a band wagon having driven down the Pershore Rd a couple of times. Not to worry, you are of course perfectly entitled to your opinion.

TR

PS. By the way, It has been noticed that you made an addition to your post after my reply.

[redbarchetta]

Play nicely...

[centurion]

I note from a Birmingham local history web site that other people have been seeking the location of no 109 Pershore Road and not to discover info about young Reg/Roy. It seems that it has been a shop and/or a café or restaurant at some stage before 1914. I wonder if Mrs Holland let out the ground floor after her husband died

[centurion]

However looking further it seems that at one point Pershore Road was divided into four sections or blocks of numbers - each starting with 1. One block was in Stirchley. So there were probably four different buildings each being 109 Pershore Road! It's a long road

[redbarchetta]

But this address is 109 Pershore Road, Edgbaston, so would be reasonable to assume this was the first block, nearest town, so this 109 would probably still have been 109 after the amalgamation?

James

[Dolphin]

[Then] AM2 Robert John Hayne Holland (1267) was born in Dorchester on 13 February 1894, and joined the RFC on 13 June 1914. After serving in France he qualified for Royal Aero Club Certificate No 3385 on 2 August 1915 as a Sergeant. He was commissioned on 8 December 1917 after being Mentioned in Despatches and awarded the MSM. In 1918 he served in Egypt, where he was again Mentioned in Despatches. He remained in the RAF until 1934 and was recalled during WWII when he served as a Squadron Leader.

[centurion]

But that signature looks not at all like a Rob or a Bob and Mrs Holland of Birmingham didn't have a Robert

[tootrock]

He signs off with "Love to you and Gus".

Might Gus be short for Augusta, who was his stepsister, living with his mother in 1911.

Martin

Edit:

How many losses had there been to pilots by 27 August 1914?

[centurion]

How many losses had there been to pilots by 27 August 1914?

See post 4

[tootrock]

Thanks, Centurion. I ought to read the small print more carefully!

Martin

[topgun1918]

Just to clarify a little, the RFC casualties up to 27 August 1914 were:

2nd Lt Robin Reginald SKENE and AM Robert Keith BARLOW, 3 Sqn RFC, killed 12-Aug-1914 in the crash of Bleriot XI-2 260 near Dover

2nd Lt Evelyn Walter Copeland PERRY and AM Herbert Edward PARFITT, 3 Sqn RFC, killed 16-Aug-1914 in the crash of BE8 625; stalled on take-off from Amiens, dived from 150 feet, crashed and burst into flames

2nd Lt Robert Raymond SMITH-BARRY and Cpl Frederick John Parsons GEARD, 5 Sqn RFC, pilot injured and observer killed 18-Aug-14 in the crash of BE8 391 at Peronne

2nd Lt Vincent WATERFALL and Lt Charles George Gordon BAYLY, 5 Sqn RFC, Kia 22-Aug-1914 in Avro 504 390; shot down by rifle fire along the Ath-Enghien road

So, three pilots and four observers killed, one of each due to direct enemy action.

Graeme