John James Farrell and Edward William Farrell

[ce.bedford]

I've posted here once before with the same title however, I thought I would post a bit of an update regarding the following soldiers who I now know served in WW1 -

John James Farrell born 5th April 1890 in Carrickfergus, Co Antrim, Northern Ireland. I have no more info for my gt uncle John except that he was a farm servant aged 11 in the Irish 1901 census but doesn't appear on the 1911 census for either Ireland or the rest of the UK. However, thanks to relatives I tracked down in Australia they were able to furnish me with a photograph of John, also known as Jack, in his army uniform.

 

The second soldier is Private Edward William Farrell born 12th March 1896 Crewe, Nantwich, Cheshire. He served with the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, service no 3645. He died from his wounds on 29th September 1916 in Liverpool. His memorial is in Kirkdale Cemetary, Liverpool. I've posted a link to photos of Edwards war medal and notification -

 

 

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u221/charondeathngfh/image-2.jpg

Please let me know if the links don't work and I'll try and redo them. Oh as an afterthought, what rank is John in the photograph? I assumed he was a private but then I wondered about the cuff chevrons, are they something to do with good conduct?

[ralphjd]

The upper chevron denotes Lance-Corporal, the lower ones not sure, don't think they are good conduct - too large. Ralph.

[ss002d6252]

I think the lower ones are good conduct (never been caught...) chevrons.

http://homepage.ntlw...RDNANCE/48b.htm

Two stripes apparently mean 6 years good service which could indicate he was a pre-war regular.

Craig

[ralphjd]

Craig just beat me to it.Initially thought they were too large, getting mixed up with wound stripes Ralph.

[ss002d6252]

Initially thought they were too large, getting mixed up with wound stripes

I always get mixed up as well - uniforms aren't my strong point.

Craig

[ce.bedford]

Lance -Corporal, really? That kind of surprises me in one respect but then military is in the blood. John and Edwards father was a private in 5th Dragoon Guards, their mothers dad was Royal Artillery, their step granddad was a career Major in Royal Artillery, in fact, all that side are Royal Artiilery, got right back to the 1700's at one point! I was going to ask if anyone could ID the uniform as in what regiment but I'm guessing that's virtually impossible as he's not wearing a hat, belt or any other features that might give clues. I looked through medal rolls and the only John James Farrell I could see at that rank was an army vet, it would make sense if he was a farm servant before service I suppose. Thanks for the quick responses!!!

[ss002d6252]

The second soldier is Private Edward William Farrell born 12th March 1896 Crewe, Nantwich, Cheshire.

SDGW shows Edward as

Name: Edward Farrell

Birth Place: Shankhill, Co. Antrim

Death Date: 29 Sep 1916

Death Location: Home

Enlistment Location: Belfast

Rank: Private

Regiment: Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers

Battalion: 2nd Battalion

Number: 3645

Type of Casualty: Died of wounds

Theatre of War: Home

Craig

[ss002d6252]

I looked through medal rolls and the only John James Farrell I could see at that rank was an army vet,

Lance Corporal was an appointment for a private so its often not shown on MIC's card.

Craig

[ce.bedford]

Ah ok. Well, I don't think there's much chance of finding the right one then lol! I do know that the photograph was taken in Liverpool.

[W.J.Caughey]

Hi ce.bedford.

There's also a soldiers will for Pte 3645 Edward Farrell online Irish soldier wills.

Walter.

[ss002d6252]

Edward's CWGC records show he was 7th Bn rather than 2nd Bn as shown on SDGW

Crraig

[W.J.Caughey]

Never noticed CWGC 7th Bn, the Will entry lists his service No 4/3645.

Walter

[ss002d6252]

I never thought anything of it until I noticed it said 2nd Bn and the number of 3645 - 3645 is too low a number for a 2nd Bn if he was born in 1890.

The 7th Bn would fit with a Service Battalion man but the 4th would fit with a S.R man - I wonder if either of these battalions used a separate numbering sequence.

Craig

[ce.bedford]

Thanks for pointing me to the online wills. According to the documents, his sister, Elizabeth Porter, states Edward said he wanted to leave all his money to her and his mother so I find it odd that his half sister Florence who emigrated to Australia in 1926, would have one of his war medals and notification letter. Florence's daughter in law also has no idea why they would be in possession of it either, unless it was given to her as a momento when she left Belfast. I'm wishing I had a photo of Edward now, he's the only one we don't actually have a photo of now!

[W.J.Caughey]

Ce.bedford

If you can email me, see my website email, maybe able to help further.

Walter

[ralphjd]

There is a MIC for a John J Farrell Royal Dublin Fusiliers reduced from Cpl to Pte for absence. You could try eliminating all the John J Farrells (there are quite a few) on Ancestry by reference to the CWGC. You may be able to trace your relative this way, you never know. Ralph.

[ralphjd]

Just to point out that the "war medal" referred to is actually his death plaque sometimes known as the "dead mans penny" only one was issued by the services so not one of his medals as noted in the letter, a seperate note came with the death plaque. Ralph.

[ce.bedford]

I've got two weeks off work now so I may very well try and cross reference the John Farrells to rule certain ones out. Thanks to Walter I know that Edward was in Liverpools Fazakerley Hospital suffering severe gunshot wounds after some action in France and that's where he died 29th September 1916. I've sent for his death certificate, mostly out of curiosity and a little out of completism. I take it, it wasn't unusual for battalion numbers to get mixed up? Even the newspaper report of Edwards injuries state he was 2nd Battalion, as does the official paperwork regarding his Will. Is it possible he started out in the 7th Battalion and transferred to the 2nd? Also, if CWGC have his battalion down as 7th, where would they have sourced this info from? Another question is, if Edward died in the UK, would his body have been released back to the family and is it likely he's buried in Belfast or more likely he's buried in Liverpool? Sorry for all the questions but this is the first time I've researched a soldier without service records to help!

[ss002d6252]

I take it, it wasn't unusual for battalion numbers to get mixed up?

Numbering can be a pain but quite often a man moving around within a regiment would keep his original number so the battalion prefix '4/' would be retained to prevent him being mixed up with any other men from other battalions with a '3645' number. It was also quite common, even on official records, for numbering mistakes to be made.

Is it possible he started out in the 7th Battalion and transferred to the 2nd?

Its quite possible - service battalion men were pretty much treated as regular soldiers on short term contracts and could be moved around as required. T.F. men were had some exceptions to this.

Craig

[ss002d6252]

Another question is, if Edward died in the UK, would his body have been released back to the family and is it likely he's buried in Belfast or more likely he's buried in Liverpool?

I think the process was to bury locally unless the family wanted to transport the body home.

Craig

[kathleen donaldson]

Just a bit more information. I have gone through Kirkdale Cemetery Register and extracted all soldiers of the Commonwealth who are buried there.

This is what I have for Edward Farrell

Mode of Burial: Church

Date of Burial: 2nd October 1916

Rank and Name: Private Edward Farrell

Age: 20

Last Address: Military Hospital Fazackerley

Edward was buried in a Special Public Military Grave in Section 4 Grave number 23.

[ce.bedford]

Thanks for all the info! Like I said, it's the first time I've had to research without service records or pensions being available and I don't really know much of what records are available so I appreciate all the info you guys can give me, so once again thanks so much!

[ce.bedford]

A quick update on Edward William Farrell - I've just received Edwards death certificate and in occupation it reads as follows -

of 147 Matilda Street Belfast, Private 7203645 - 7th Innis Fusiliers

Cause of death was rather chilling to read but it says -

1. GSW through head

2. Meningitis

So now the service number appears to have changed again.....whe has the 720 bit come from?

[ss002d6252]

6 digits would usually indicate that he had been numbered in a T.F. battalion but the 7th were a service battalion used a different numbering sequence.

I'm also not aware of any T.F. unit with a 6 digit numbering starting with 720 - possibly a misreading of 7/203645 ? (even this would be a bit odd).

Another possibility is that he has had 2 numbers - 720 & 3645 and they've been written down wrongly.

Craig

[ymf]

I think the lower ones are good conduct (never been caught...) chevrons.

http://homepage.ntlw...RDNANCE/48b.htm

Two stripes apparently mean 6 years good service which could indicate he was a pre-war regular.

Craig

My grandfather had four reversed stripes on the cuff of his uniform - he was in the Skins and their museum told me those stripes meant he had served overseas for four years. So those on John's uniform mean he had been abroad in two separate years and had nothing to do with good conduct.

Another point about John's uniform - it was from the early part of the war - I am told that uniforms with pleats on the pockets were only issued up to 1915 so indicates John enlisted before that date, so would have been his "old" uniform jacket until a new one was issued.

Anyone agree with that. Yvonne