Post-German Planes in Red Air Force

[Shadow of the Belle Epoque]

Greetings!

Some time ago I've found an interesting note, while reading a book about the Russian Civil War. There was a brief mention about the unusual fight between English Pilot, serving as a volunteer in the White Army, against a bolshevik Fokker Dr.I. This was interesting, but the book provided no further citation and no source.

I've been thinking about it quite a lot recently. I know, that the Russian Civil War was a chaotic event, when anything could happened. I'm from Poland, and I'm aware, that the Air Forces of Poland were using the strange mix of Austro-Hungarian, German and Russian planes as well, but it's easier to explain, as we had some German airfields on our territories, captured after the 11.11.1918. But the Bolshevik pilot flying the rare triplane is odd...

Do you know any similar stories about using the former German planes in the Russian Civil War? And what was the source of that planes? A trophies captured before the 1918? Some leftovers after the Ober-Ost? Or maybe they were bought from the German factories?

[Dolphin]

I wonder if you're thinking of the claim by US-born Lt Marion Aten, who was flew with No 47 Sqn RAF, that he brought down a Fokker Dr.I near Tsaritsyn in April 1919. The claim can be dismissed, as the squadron didn't go into action in South Russia until June. It appears that Aten made up a lot of his history. I discussed the chances of a Fokker Dr.I making it from the Western Front, or Germany, to South Russia, with the late August Blume, the foremost authority on Russian/Soviet aircraft in the 1914-1920 period, and we concluded that could not have happened; the aeroplane would have operated as an orphan, with no supporting parts, which seems most unlikely.

[centurion]

The only triplanes known to have been in Service with the Red Air Fleet were Sopwiths. One still exists in a Russian museum.

[Shadow of the Belle Epoque]

So the story with Dr.I is probably a false, or a misinterpretation, I see. Thanks for the quick responce in that matter!

Yet on the other hand, it seems that Reds had some German planes within their ranks.

http://www.wio.ru/ww1a/gal2rus.htm

http://www.wio.ru/ww1a/gal2rus.htm

http://www.wio.ru/ww1a/albatros.htm

http://www.wio.ru/ww1a/gal1rus.htm

The last one is particulary interesting, as Fokkers E.V were rather rare in Polish Air Forces. If someone is interested, I'll try to find when did that plane could be captured.

Another example, not enitrely Bolsheviks-related, but still on the renmants of the Eastern front- a fight between a Polish plane and the Ukrainian Nieuport, when the last one was escorting two Hansa-Brandenburgs... It's something about this even on wiki, though it needs some verification.

[centurion]

The Albatross B s are in Imperial not Soviet markings. Albatross B s were built in Russia by Anatra under license before the war (and I think some after it started) so these might not be true captured aircraft. A re engined version became the Anatra D. I would doubt that any Albatross B s were still chugging around in Soviet skies.

[centurion]

I think that the Friedrichshafen G.III was used originally for passenger services between Germany and Russia in 1919. When it became clear that bombers would be confiscated and destroyed by the Allied Military Control Commission passenger services switched to use the civilian Junkers F13 and the Friedrichshafen gifted to the Soviet Union. Lithuania's Friedrichshafen may have been acquired by the same process.

[Shadow of the Belle Epoque]

About the Friedrichschafen, I have something new, found on the Russian sites.

http://www.airwar.ru...bww1/frhg4.html

Rough translation:

"In 1920 two such planes were bought by the Soviet Russia, and used by the couple of years. Another one, after the emergency landing on the Lithuanian territory, was repaired and was serving in Lithuanian Air Forces."

[centurion]

In fact Lithuania had two Friedrichschafen G IIIa in service at Kaunas AFAIK the only aircraft they had captured from the Bolshevicks was Sopwith 1½ Strutter ex A1527 so this doesn't seem right

[centurion]

Do you know any similar stories about using the former German planes in the Russian Civil War? And what was the source of that planes? A trophies captured before the 1918? Some leftovers after the Ober-Ost? Or maybe they were bought from the German factories?

Or possibly bought from KuK factories? A number of German types were manufactured under licence and with the armistice in 1918 some of these factories exported aircraft to other countries (until the Allies put a stop to it in 1919) - that's where some Polish air-force aircraft came from. Also with the collapse of the Hungarian communist regime I believe some of their aircraft (Fokker D VIIs and C I s) may have gone Eastwards.