Lying about your age?

[Steve Diamond]

So I'm creating a profile of Frederick St. George Cooke, who was lost in WWI. I've stumbled across something interesting. He claims to be 30 years old on his attestation papers, but two different census records say he should be around 36 years old then.

Does anyone know any reason, beyond vanity, that might explain someone giving the wrong age when they sign up? I've heard of teenagers claiming to be older. Were there rules on maximum ages? He was joining the North Irish Horse, presumably a cavalry regiment.

Further data on the man I'm looking into: Rank:Private, Service No:41694, Date of Death:19/04/1918, Regiment/Service:Royal Irish Fusiliers, 9th Bn. formerly (2182) North Irish Horse.

Reference Panel 140 to 141. TYNE COT MEMORIAL

Son of the late Francis and Anne Cooke, of Gortermone House, Carrigallen, Co. Leitrim; husband of Jeannie C. Cooke, of "Norton," 6, Hawthornden Rd., Knock, Belfast.

Body never recovered. Three sons, plus a daughter who died aged 3. He was a Freemason, and Ulster Volunteer Force "half-company commander". Born in Carrigallen, Co. Leitrim. Ran a grocer's shop in Whitehead, County Antrim.

Any replies would be most welcome.

[David B]

From the outset there were different requirements as to age - minimum and maximum, height, chest expansion. See link below for full details. However 36 years old was always within the acceptable

age extremes and your man may have been driven by vanity alone. No way of telling I would think. As an aside my g/father joined the army (long before ww1) when he was 16, but added two years

to his age and he was always given the age he stated originally, even during the war. His reason was basically no jobs in Jersey and he was looking for long time employment.

http://www.1914-1918.net/recruitment.htm

[clive_hughes]

The North Irish Horse which he initially joined was a Special Reserve regiment, so unless he was on a special enlistment of some sort (I have seen a number of one-year contracts from 1914 for ex-servicemen joining the SR) he had to sign on for 6 years service.

According to the link, SR service was not permitted past the age of 40, so maybe that's why he reduced it?

One of my wife's distant relatives managed to enlist with a Lancashire "Bantam" battalion early in 1915 claiming to be aged 34, but being married with children he had to produce a wedding certificate in order to claim the allowances. Anyone who matched the wedding date with his stated age would have been struck by the fact that he was apparently 9 years old at the time of that happy event...yet no comment was made. He lasted 8 months in the UK before being discharged on medical grounds.

Clive

[Nickmetcalfe]

From 'Blacker's Boys' this is your man:

COOKE Private Frederick St George 41694. Born in 1886 at Carrigallen, County Leitrim. From Lisburn. A grocer. Member of Masonic Lodge 313. [Enlisted into 6^th (Inniskilling) Dragoons (2182). To France 28 January 1917. Served with 2^nd North Irish Horse, X Corps Cavalry Regiment. To 25^th Stationary Hospital sick (measles) 17 February 1917. Rejoined 2^nd North Irish Horse 13 March 1917. To hospital sick (haemorrhoids) from 10 October to 7 December 1917. Renumbered H/71709.] Transferred to Princess Victoria’s (Royal Irish Fusiliers) and joined the renamed 9^th (North Irish Horse) Battalion on 1 January 1918 (renumbered 41694). Missing in the period 11-18 April 1918 in the actions between Wulverghem and Kemmel; subsequently declared killed in action 19 April 1918.

I believe that this birthdate is wrong. A Frederick George Cooke had his birth registered in Mohill (not too far away) in 1879. This fits with the census. It also fits with a marriage of Frederick St George Cook in Belfast 1903. If you can say that he was born in 1879 I'll amend his write-up in the book. Note that he did not transfer with the rest of 2NIH in 1917. He is one of very few men of 2NIH who were renumbered when cavalry numbers were changed (because he was in hospital sick) and then renumbered on transferring to the Royal irish Fusiliers.

Nick

[Steve Diamond]

This is great stuff, thanks to you all. I've yet to trace this chap's birth date anywhere, indeed he was a forgotten man in my home town. I found his name on a plaque in County Antrim Yacht Club, and in a newspaper tribute as among the two men lost from the local Masonic lodge (313). In 1913 he was their Worshipful Master - the top guy. I'd guess that's more likely for a man aged 34 than one aged 27.

He's missing from our local War monument, or any church plaque. Having "re-discovered" him I had the clergyman add his name to the roll call last Remembrance Day. He was a grocer in this town at least 6 years, that's good enough for me.

He's born as one of 15 children of a farmer (census), but becomes a well-to-do businessman. Evidence? That Yacht Club, back then, would have well-to-do members. He heads a local lodge, lives with 2 servants, he's a UVF half-company commander, he joins the cavalry. Of course some farmers would have been wealthy, but the organizations he joined and sought advancement within imply he was a social climber. I'm speculating - dangerous habit. I should stick to evidence!

On the free cut-down version of Ancestry.com I can see in public libraries there is a matching marriage record in 1903. If he was really 30 in 1916 that would make him about 17 in 1903, marrying a lady aged 29. Possible, but not common! Just now reading 19^th August 1903 as his wedding date on the attestation papers 2nd page (found the same way, in a library). T.A. Aston signs to verify the marriage certificate provided.

In 1919 his wife lists the ages of his 14 siblings ranging from 44 to 22 years old. Either of his alternate ages fit within this range.

Parents in 1901 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Leitrim/Gortermone/Gortermone/1476716/

Parents in 1911 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Leitrim/Gortermone/Gortermone/658788/

F St. G Cooke himself, as a 22 year old boarder, grocer's assistant in 1901 census, with his brother John aged 17

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Clifton/Fleetwood_Street/961642/

1911 as a 32 year old grocer with his brother Herbert, 2 servants, a lodger, his aunt, wife + kids...

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Templecorran/King_s_Road/189058/

Pardon me, gentlemen, I'm just trying to re-digest everything I have in the light of your new information. Yes, birth in 1879 tallies with his age in all the census records. No-one else 6 years older has come to light in any searches with a similar name, so that birth must be him. I'm convinced: he told a fib. This is an interesting addition to his story.

Footnote: I have an old postcard showing a street with his grocer's shop to one side. There's a figure in an apron in the doorway. It could be Herbert, or an assistant, but maybe it's him. I have a very good photo of a UVF parade that I KNOW he was part of, the proof being a newspaper account naming him as there. He's somewhere in that throng of faces, probably prominently in the front row. Some day I do hope I'll be able to pick out his face. More digging required! Many thanks for your help.

I will accredit you with data you've provided, albeit by giving your invisionzone aliases!