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Remembered Today:

Princelet Street, Spitalfields, London's East End


BottsGreys

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Hoping there might be someone who could get me a pic or two of 7 Princelet Street, which was the home of the John & Rebecca Greenbaum family during the war. I am researching their three soldier sons,

Lionel, Bernard, and Jack.

Thanks for reading this,

Chris

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Here's a present day street view of Princelet Street, London E1:

post-2135-0-78577100-1370641731_thumb.jp

No.7 is the narrow building with the triple-width door to the left of No. 9. This may or may not be the building known as No. 7 a century ago; streets are re-numbered from time to time, but this is clearly the street largely as it was (I can see at least one later building on the opposite side of the road).

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Hi Jim:

Thanks for that--much appreciated. I have emailed a fellow I found online who leads tours of the Jewish East End. Hopefully, he can tell me whether or not the address numbers have remained unchanged since the beginning of the 20th Century.

Chris

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  • 4 years later...

Hi Chris,

I have just come across your post. House numbers in Princelet Street have changed. The house (No. 7) where the the Greenbaum family lived is now No. 16. It is the house with the red door in the photograph below which was taken in 2016. As you can see from the picture many of the old Georgian houses on Princelet Street have been restored although No. 16 has not changed much in recent years.

Currently, I am researching the various people who lived at No. 16 Princelet Street over the years. I am keen to find out more about the Greenbaum family and I would be happy to share information with you.

Barry

 

5ad9c224683ef_No16PrinceletStreet.jpg.101a10957d749d529e38b0dbe6ff1a46.jpg

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Chris hasn't visited the Forum since December 2016. There's a chance that a personal message may get through to him, so I'll send him one alerting him to you post, Barry.

 

(I'm in the Spitalfields area a couple of times a month and despite all the regeneration there's some fascinating old architecture still to be seen.)

 

 

Moonraker

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8 hours ago, Moonraker said:

Chris hasn't visited the Forum since December 2016. There's a chance that a personal message may get through to him, so I'll send him one alerting him to you post, Barry.

 

(I'm in the Spitalfields area a couple of times a month and despite all the regeneration there's some fascinating old architecture still to be seen.)

 

 

Moonraker

  And the curry house on the corner of Princelet St and Brick Lane is a favourite of past years as well.

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On 4/20/2018 at 09:13, Moonraker said:

Chris hasn't visited the Forum since December 2016. There's a chance that a personal message may get through to him, so I'll send him one alerting him to you post, Barry.

 

(I'm in the Spitalfields area a couple of times a month and despite all the regeneration there's some fascinating old architecture still to be seen.)

 

 

Moonraker

Hi Moonraker: Thanks for the message notifying me of Quest's post--much appreciated. Chris

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On 4/20/2018 at 06:48, Quest said:

Hi Chris,

I have just come across your post. House numbers in Princelet Street have changed. The house (No. 7) where the the Greenbaum family lived is now No. 16. It is the house with the red door in the photograph below which was taken in 2016. As you can see from the picture many of the old Georgian houses on Princelet Street have been restored although No. 16 has not changed much in recent years.

Currently, I am researching the various people who lived at No. 16 Princelet Street over the years. I am keen to find out more about the Greenbaum family and I would be happy to share information with you.

Barry

 

5ad9c224683ef_No16PrinceletStreet.jpg.101a10957d749d529e38b0dbe6ff1a46.jpg

Hello Barry: I'm on the run in and out of the house today, but I did find this bit regarding the Greenbaum's that I wrote to someone in an email back in 2013. I will look for additional info tonight, including scans of the pics of the Greenbaum brothers.  Chris

 

 I recently acquired a trio of real-photo postcards of British soldiers
> Lionel, Bernard, and Jack Greenbaum. In researching them, I have found that
> they were sons of John and Rebecca Greenbaum, and the family resided at 7
> Princelet Street in Spitalfields. John and Rebecca were immigrants from
> Poland (1891 Census shows John as "Jonas"). The 1911 Census shows John was
> a furrier, as were his sons. I have found that Lionel, who served in the
> Army Service Corps, survived the war. Jack was in one of the Jewish
> Battalions of the Royal Fusiliers, but did not serve overseas. I believe he
> did not turn 19 (the official age for being sent overseas) until it was too
> late in the war. He was at the Depot in Plymouth in February 1919. Bernard
> enlisted early in the war, Sept. 1914 and served on the Western Front first
> with the 8th Battalion, East Kent Regiment (The Buffs) in which he was
> seriously wounded in March 1916 when German artillery shelled his company's
> trench. After recuperation at a hospital in Grosvenor Square, he was sent
> to the 2nd Battalion of The Buffs, serving in Salonika (Greece). It was
> there that he died of malaria and dysentery in early October 1918. He is
> buried in Salonika. While most WWI enlisted men's service records were
> destroyed during the Blitz in WWII, a portion of Bernard's has survived and
> is available on Ancestry.com.

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Many thanks for the details about the Greenbaum brothers and their war service.

The house where the Greenbaum family lived has an interesting past that reflects the immigrant history of Spitalfields. One of the earliest occupants of No. 16 was John Sabatier, an influential Huguenot silk weaver, who came to England as a refugee to escape religious intolerance in Catholic France. The Greenbaums were also refugees, part of a wave of Jewish immigration sparked by persecution in the Russian empire. After the Second World War the Jewish community in the East End dwindled and their place was taken by Bengalis fleeing from war and poverty on the Indian subcontinent.

When I first explored Princelet in the late seventies a Bengali family was living in No. 16. The area was impoverished and the Bengalis were living under conditions not dissimilar to the overcrowding experienced by Jewish immigrants before them. In 2016, No. 16 was still occupied by the same family and the house was little changed. But almost everything else about the street had altered beyond recognition. Most of the Georgian houses had been restored and soaring property values had altered the demographics of the street.

Barry

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On 23/04/2018 at 23:06, BottsGreys said:

Hello Barry: I'm on the run in and out of the house today, but I did find this bit regarding the Greenbaum's that I wrote to someone in an email back in 2013. I will look for additional info tonight, including scans of the pics of the Greenbaum brothers.  Chris

 

 I recently acquired a trio of real-photo postcards of British soldiers
> Lionel, Bernard, and Jack Greenbaum. In researching them, I have found that
> they were sons of John and Rebecca Greenbaum, and the family resided at 7
> Princelet Street in Spitalfields. John and Rebecca were immigrants from
> Poland (1891 Census shows John as "Jonas"). The 1911 Census shows John was
> a furrier, as were his sons. I have found that Lionel, who served in the
> Army Service Corps, survived the war. Jack was in one of the Jewish
> Battalions of the Royal Fusiliers, but did not serve overseas. I believe he
> did not turn 19 (the official age for being sent overseas) until it was too
> late in the war. He was at the Depot in Plymouth in February 1919. Bernard
> enlisted early in the war, Sept. 1914 and served on the Western Front first
> with the 8th Battalion, East Kent Regiment (The Buffs) in which he was
> seriously wounded in March 1916 when German artillery shelled his company's
> trench. After recuperation at a hospital in Grosvenor Square, he was sent
> to the 2nd Battalion of The Buffs, serving in Salonika (Greece). It was
> there that he died of malaria and dysentery in early October 1918. He is
> buried in Salonika. While most WWI enlisted men's service records were
> destroyed during the Blitz in WWII, a portion of Bernard's has survived and
> is available on Ancestry.com.

 

   Hi Chris-  Have you looked at this source. You have not mentioned it directly, but if known then my apologies-I will teach my own Granny how to suck eggs.  

         This is a very worthwhile website-and  if you have pics. of the 3 Greenbaum brothers, then I am sure that the online archive would be most interested  in anything you could contribute. I draw your attention to some of the other resources they have- including the inducement of free access to The Jewish Chronicle for the war years-which could be mutually beneficial.

      There is A Bernard Greenbaum already listed (I suspect there was more than one in the Jewish East End)  Be even better if it is the right one!!

 

 

 

London Jews in The First World War - We Were There Too

We Were There Too is a unique cross community project created to capture, record and preserve the impact, experience and contribution of London's Jewish communities during the First World War era.
You've visited this page 3 times. Last visit: 24/04/18
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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks, for advising me of the "London Jewsin the First World War..."  site, very interesting and much appreciated. Yes, as Barry noted the Bernard Greenbaum on the site is the correct one--the portrait there is from the British Jewry Book of Honor and is a cropped version of the photo postcard I have.  Attached is the front and back of the Bernard Greenbaum postcard.

 

Chris5af30f114acc5_BernardGreenbaumTheBuffs600reduced.jpg.45a69721139aa6299900bad42df0ff50.jpg5af30f47735c0_BernardGreenbaumTheBuffs300a0002reduced.jpg.86f97bdd1dfaab72c7b5512fda77ac6e.jpg

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Here is the front and back of the portrait postcard of Lionel Greenbaum. 

 

Chris5af3102c55af0_LionelGreenbaumASC600reduced.jpg.58d6067119472c02249d4d6681be2dbe.jpg5af3104cba322_LionelGreenbaumASC300areduced.jpg.d6429d917b2dd5041577eb04f9aec5f8.jpg

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Attached is a pic of Lionel Greenbaum posing with a vehicle. Postcard is inscribed to a relative by Lionel's sister Lillian:  "Dear Uncle, My brother just arrived home for good. He looks fat and happy. This is a picture of him standing beside the Rolls-Royce he used to drive out in Cologne. Lily"  (Lillian Greenbaum)

 

Chris

 

5af311f9658d3_LionelGreenbaumlorrie600reduced.jpg.acbb0067c786f059f29f663e4cc66963.jpg5af3121fea286_LionelGreenbaumlorrie300reversereduced.jpg.dea2181f50498c8d6baba81531381488.jpg

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Here is the last of the four Greenbaum postcards. This is Jack Greenbaum, Royal Fusiliers (RF). Blind-stamped on the front 5af312c341d41_JackGreenbaumRoyalFusiliers600reduced.jpg.0358e227b738f7c61680598d5fff5ca0.jpg5af312eba9ccd_JackGreenbaumRoyalFusiliers300areduced.jpg.595e31000e563ae3c518b1c789da7d90.jpgby a photographer in Plymouth, where the Depot for the Jewish RF volunteer battalions was located.  Jack did not make it overseas during the war; therefore, no MIC card.  He did not turn 19 until mid/late 1918, and I believe that kept him from being sent overseas.

 

Chris

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30 minutes ago, BottsGreys said:

Here is the last of the four Greenbaum postcards. This is Jack Greenbaum, Royal Fusiliers (RF). Blind-stamped on the front 5af312c341d41_JackGreenbaumRoyalFusiliers600reduced.jpg.0358e227b738f7c61680598d5fff5ca0.jpg5af312eba9ccd_JackGreenbaumRoyalFusiliers300areduced.jpg.595e31000e563ae3c518b1c789da7d90.jpgby a photographer in Plymouth, where the Depot for the Jewish RF volunteer battalions was located.  Jack did not make it overseas during the war; therefore, no MIC card.  He did not turn 19 until mid/late 1918, and I believe that kept him from being sent overseas.

 

Chris

In 1918  a soldier could be sent overseas from 18 1/2 providing he met certain training requirements but it's hard to say for any particular man why he wasn't sent.

Craig

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On 5/9/2018 at 12:00, ss002d6252 said:

In 1918  a soldier could be sent overseas from 18 1/2 providing he met certain training requirements but it's hard to say for any particular man why he wasn't sent.

Craig

Thanks for that--appreciate the info.  I agree, it is hard it is hard to say why he wasn't sent if eligible .

 

Chris

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Hi Chris,

Many thanks. The photographs and hand written messages have certainly helped to flesh out my picture of the Greenbaum brothers. The photo of Bernard is particularly poignant in view of his tragic death so close to the end of the war. It is important that these stories are told - thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread.

Best wishes, Barry

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On 5/9/2018 at 12:00, ss002d6252 said:

In 1918  a soldier could be sent overseas from 18 1/2 providing he met certain training requirements but it's hard to say for any particular man why he wasn't sent.

Craig

Thanks for the info--much appreciated. I have amended my thinking.  Chris

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2 hours ago, Quest said:

Hi Chris,

Many thanks. The photographs and hand written messages have certainly helped to flesh out my picture of the Greenbaum brothers. The photo of Bernard is particularly poignant in view of his tragic death so close to the end of the war. It is important that these stories are told - thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread.

Best wishes, Barry

 

Hi Barry: Glad to have been in a position to help. It appears that these pics may have come from a photo album. Too bad we don't have access to the entire album--I'm sure it would have been fascinating. Here is Bernard's memorial on Find A Grave: https://old.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Greenbaum&GSfn=Bernard&GSbyrel=all&GSdy=1918&GSdyrel=in&GSob=n&GRid=56565432&df=all&  also https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/56565432/bernard-greenbaum  The War Grave Photographic Project also has a photo of the grave.  Chris

Edited by BottsGreys
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