Rank Identification

[gunner245]

While researching a cavalryman i came across the Rank description ( King,s Corporal) can anyone

Tell me anything about this rank.

Mel.

[Guest]

Some info Here

Mike

[Steven Broomfield]

The link Mike gave is blocked by my work's IT server ( ) so don't know what it says. My understanding was that the "rank" mentioned was a bit of a barrack- room myth that someone promoted in the field became a King's Corporal and could never be busted.

[Guest]

Amongst other things it says

" SOUTH AFRICAN WAR 1899-1902

Confining ourselves to the wars of recent times in which Australian troops have taken part we find that during the South African War, 1899-1902, those officers and soldiers who received a "mention" had their names included in the London Gazette. It was reprinted in South African Army Orders, and again in local General Orders. The recipient had no personal outward sign to show that he had received a "mention", unless of course, some decoration as well had been conferred upon him.

Other forms of "mention" during this campaign were the promotion of other ranks to

"King's Corporal" and

"Kitchener Sergeant", and the presentation of the coveted

"Queen's Scarf ".

The history of King's Corporal and Kitchener Sergeant in the Army is known to some, but is frequently the subject of argument. A writer to the Journal of Army Historical Research, 1935, states that the current tradition of the rank was instituted as a reward for gallantry during the South African War and existed during that campaign only. Private soldiers, it is said, once promoted King's Corporal-supernumerary to regimental establishment - could never be reduced except by the King himself.

In the same journal for 1936 a reprint from the Naval and Military Journal quoted the following on the subject of King's Corporal, which apparently was a "mention": "There was an official suggestion in 1901 to the effect that soldiers who had distinguished themselves in war-time, but were unsuited to be NCOs in peace-time, should be given some mark of distinction on the right arm, preferably an embroidered band, carrying with it a step in rank whilst actually on active service, with additional pay, and a donation of £10 at the end of it.

Some members of the War Office Committee who sat to consider the proposal objected to the monetary grant, urging that such was derogatory to the soldier, but one of them pointed out that "Lord Roberts had not hesitated to accept £100,000, so I cannot see why a soldier should object to receive £10." The idea, however, was not adopted, though some men were specially promoted in the field in the latter stages of the Boer War, and were generally known as 'Kitchener Sergeants'."

Many inquiries were made during World War II on the question of King's Corporal, whether it really existed or not. On 22 October 1944 a letter appeared in the London Times referring to the statement made by the Secretary of State for War in the British Parliament on 10 October. It had been asked on what authority Lord Kitchener had promoted a rifleman of the Rifle Brigade to the rank of King's Corporal on 8 December 1901. Other correspondents cited additional instances. The Times writer asked: "Can any authority say what the award is intended to convey to the recipient if it is not recognized in the War Office?"

During the South African War Australian contingents had King's Corporals and Kitchener Sergeants. It is recorded in official orders that two corporals and a lance-corporal were promoted sergeant and five troopers, a lance corporal and a private were promoted corporal by the Commander-in-Chief for gallantry in the field. These were termed "King's Corporals" and "Kitchener Sergeants" and the promotions were announced in orders under the heading of "mentions", and were published in the London Gazette.

The order announcing the promotions stated that "the General Commanding-in-Chief had been pleased to sanction the following promotions of NCOs and men for distinguished gallantry in the field (should they be desirous of accepting it). Such promotion to take effect in each case from the date mentioned on which the act was performed. "

Mike

[corisande]

The is a thread with links here http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=158705&hl="king's%20corporal"#entry1582639

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Mel

It's an old but remarkably persistent myth. You will search in vain for any mention of a King's Corporal (or a Kitchener Sergeant) in the Army Act, King's Regulations or the Pay Warrant.

It is certainly true that soldiers could be promoted in the field for gallantry, and quite possibly these might have been known UNOFFICIALLY as King's Corporals, but the claim that they could only be reduced from that rank with the agreement of the King has no basis in fact.

Ron

[bill24chev]

Hello Mel

It's an old but remarkably persistent myth. You will search in vain for any mention of a King's Corporal (or a Kitchener Sergeant) in the Army Act, King's Regulations or the Pay Warrant.

It is certainly true that soldiers could be promoted in the field for gallantry, and quite possibly these might have been known UNOFFICIALLY as King's Corporals, but the claim that they could only be reduced from that rank with the agreement of the King has no basis in fact.

Ron

and of course a poor soldier could be demoted to lance private

[gunner245]

Many thanks all for the info,

I can see now why there is no mention of rank on this man,s MIC or his medals.

Mel.

[Jim Strawbridge]

Many thanks all for the info,

I can see now why there is no mention of rank on this man,s MIC or his medals.

Mel.

I cannot see why rank as a corporal (or private) shouldn't be on the MIC or medals. If you have the medals can you let us know exactly what the wording says on the edge as we may be able to help you a bit more?

[gunner245]

Jim,

The rank on the medals states PTE. and also on his Medal index card. Where the( Kings corporal) rank came from which made me curious was an entry in the

Presbyterian Church Roll Of Honour Book 1914-1919 it states,

Thomas Hazel Rank, Kings Corporal, 2nd Dragoon Guards 14290 Wounded-Gassed.

Mel.

[Jim Strawbridge]

Jim,

The rank on the medals states PTE. and also on his Medal index card. Where the( Kings corporal) rank came from which made me curious was an entry in the

Presbyterian Church Roll Of Honour Book 1914-1919 it states,

Thomas Hazel Rank, Kings Corporal, 2nd Dragoon Guards 14290 Wounded-Gassed.

Mel.

Ah, so there is a rank on the MIC and medals. Thank you.