Mark Hone Posted 16 April , 2003 Share Posted 16 April , 2003 Can anyone tell me what the state of play is with regard to the planned motorway extension which would carve up the Pilckem ridge battlefield? I thought it had all gone into abeyance but when I cycled up to No Man's Cot the other day there were a lot of 'Open Country: Yes; A19 No' posters up on farm buildings etc. Seeing the ridge in the Spring before the trees are fully in leaf made me realise how built up the surrounding area is becoming , not only on the Boesinghe side but also to the South. I used to think St Jan was a quiet residential suburb but it now seems a hive of activity and (dangerous) traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn_Hammond Posted 16 April , 2003 Share Posted 16 April , 2003 Mark The Imperial War Museum has been working closely with the Flemish Instituut voor het Archeologisch Patrimonium [institute for Archaeological Heritage] and with an all-party British parliamentary group in keeping aware of what's being planned - but my understanding is that the road is still likely to be built. Incidentally, there are now TWO speed cameras on the road between Ieper and Dixmuide - is this another necessity in modern high-speed Belgium or an indication of the decline of Belgian agriculture as there aren't enough tractors to slow everyone down any more? (They always worked well before...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 10 November , 2003 Author Share Posted 10 November , 2003 Much of the publicity for Ieper over the Remembrance period (eg the excellent 'Open Country' radio programme featuring two of our Pals) has implied that the dreaded motorway extension is imminent. Could someone give an up to date sitrep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 10 November , 2003 Share Posted 10 November , 2003 I don't think the decision will be made so fast. The minister was saying that probably some parts would be protected. They're still excavating. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 10 November , 2003 Share Posted 10 November , 2003 Anyone now the story about seven bodies found on Pilkem Ridge reported on the news tonight? Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_East Posted 10 November , 2003 Share Posted 10 November , 2003 The excavations are said to be in the path of the proposed motorway extension of the A19. It looks to be a case of carrying out controlled excavations before the heavy gear is brought in to ensure that Great War archaeological value is not lost? Incidentally,I did not recognise the names of the people involved on the BBC news item. It has to be said that a look of the map reveals that the A19 was not intended to terminate at Ypres.The A19 motorway already branched east from the A17 and must have required archaeological safeguards during its construction. Were there any known issues during the motorway construction from its junction on the A17?. Regards Frank East Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham-McAdam Posted 10 November , 2003 Share Posted 10 November , 2003 Channel 4 News this evening had much the same story (also with Arthur Halestrap) suggesting that the motorway tarmac trucks are just over the horizon. By the way, can it possible that men actually lived in those 18 inch deep trenches? Or has some digger removed the top couple of feet of topsoil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hussar Posted 10 November , 2003 Share Posted 10 November , 2003 Here is a link to more info about this subject. It includes a map section showing the proposed route, along with current Cemetaries in the area. http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dccfarr/A19.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Polygonwood Posted 10 November , 2003 Share Posted 10 November , 2003 Further to the last messages, there has been coverage of the excavations on BBC News this evening (18.00 GMT). The report said a number of bodies had been recovered, together with extensive trench works. I've not followed the debate on the motorway - has the regional/national govt given the green light to the motorway extension? What are the CWGC saying about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutley Posted 10 November , 2003 Share Posted 10 November , 2003 Have just done a search through Google fro Belgium news tories relating to the first world war and it came up with three pictures, one of the remains of a British boot and some bones, one of the remains of a trench system and one of a member of the excavation party with some ammunition. No details of whether the Belgium authorities plan to continue with the extention of the A19 to link Yores to the coast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 10 November , 2003 Share Posted 10 November , 2003 It has to be said that a look of the map reveals that the A19 was not intended to terminate at Ypres.The A19 motorway already branched east from the A17 and must have required archaeological safeguards during its construction. Were there any known issues during the motorway construction from its junction on the A17?. Nothing has been done to look for WW1-remains when the A19 from Menin to Ypres was built. They past Gheluvelt, Polderhoek, Black Watch Corner etc. and all things that were found were just pillaged (believe me, I've heard some pretty amazing stories over the years). In those days, interest in WW1 was not what it was today... They don't want to let that happen again apparently (and luckily). Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hussar Posted 10 November , 2003 Share Posted 10 November , 2003 For anyone who might be interested in such things, here's a link to the Hansard report on a Lord's debate about this plan. http://www.parliament.the-stationery-offic...#30703-11_star0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabiansson Posted 10 November , 2003 Share Posted 10 November , 2003 See update at: The Archaeology of the Western Front 1914-1918 /Nils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Posted 10 November , 2003 Share Posted 10 November , 2003 I've heard that they discovered five bodies and that at least one was from the Northumberland Fusiliers although I haven't heard anything about the motorway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 10 November , 2003 Share Posted 10 November , 2003 (...) It has to be said that a look of the map reveals that the A19 was not intended to terminate at Ypres.The A19 motorway already branched east from the A17 and must have required archaeological safeguards during its construction. Were there any known issues during the motorway construction from its junction on the A17?. Frank, The answer is simple : no. But that was must have been 20 (?) or so years ago. At a time that battlefield preservation was not a priority. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 10 November , 2003 Share Posted 10 November , 2003 BBC Radio news update at 22.00 - suggests that one body (presumably the Fusilier) has been identified. Name not being made public until family found and notified. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Burgoyne Posted 10 November , 2003 Share Posted 10 November , 2003 The trenches on the TV may very well be the ones re-captured by the 1st K.S.L.I. on the night of 21st/22nd April 1916 near Turco Farm but I not sure. The Germans had captured front line from near Algerian Cottage to a trench known as D.21, this included Willow Walk and Duck's Bill. The Germans had fitted the captured trenches with iron loopholes. Now the bit on the news today showed iron loopholes which had been found, I do not know if they were German or not but if these loopholes are of German make and the trenches are these near Turco Farm then they could very well be the ones re-captured by the Shropshires ? Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 11 November , 2003 Author Share Posted 11 November , 2003 What is the exact proposed route of the motorway extension? Are any cemeteries (e.g. No Man's Cot) directly in the planned path and what is the CWGC's position on it all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Missinne Posted 11 November , 2003 Share Posted 11 November , 2003 For some pictures of the excavations, look on The Great War in Flanders Fields. Click on 'Events' > 'You were there'. Excavations Pilckem Ridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Burgoyne Posted 11 November , 2003 Share Posted 11 November , 2003 Does anyone know the exact location of the digging, I've seen a general map of planned road but would like to know for sure the exact location. Does the archaeological group doing this work have a website of their own ? Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliecoco Posted 12 November , 2003 Share Posted 12 November , 2003 BBC Radio news update at 22.00 - suggests that one body (presumably the Fusilier) has been identified. Name not being made public until family found and notified. Hi, According to yesterdays Telegraph, "the investigators although still cautious, are quietly confident that the remains are that of Acting Lance Corporal William Storey, 5th Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers". "Apparently only four members of that unit had gone missing in that sector. Three were officers whose uniforms did not carry such shoulder flashes, leaving William Storey. Also another four sets of remains have been discovered, three are believed to be a machine-gun team from the Royal Sussex Regiment". Alie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Missinne Posted 12 November , 2003 Share Posted 12 November , 2003 Annette, For the exact location: look on Tentoonstelling - Exhibition - Ieper - 11/11/2003. The last picture shows a map. The red color shows the traject of the planned highway. The yellow color shows the places where the excavations are (or are already finished). The end of the highway can be seen on some pictures on Pilkem Ridge - 11/11/2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 12 November , 2003 Share Posted 12 November , 2003 Also another four sets of remains have been discovered, three are believed to be a machine-gun team from the Royal Sussex Regiment". Interested to read that - this must mean they are from the 11/12/13 Bns Royal Sussex, or 1/5th (Cinque Ports) Bn as they were the only ones in this area; both in 1917. If it is the 11/12/13 then this work must be taking place closer to Buffs Road than Track X? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliecoco Posted 12 November , 2003 Share Posted 12 November , 2003 If it is the 11/12/13 then this work must be taking place closer to Buffs Road than Track X? Hi Paul, Quoting again from the Telegraph, "If the remains are identified as those of L/Cpl Storey they will, according to tradition, be interred at one of the Commonwealth war cemeteries near the scene of their discovery. One, named Track X after a route marked on military maps of the time, lies only a few hunded yards from the excavation towards the German lines". I should of also mentioned that another soldier was also discovered believed to be from a cavalry regiment. I hope this info might be of help! Alie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Burgoyne Posted 12 November , 2003 Share Posted 12 November , 2003 Thanks Robert If the building in the of set section is Turco Farm this road is going to run bang over the trenches captured by the K.S.L.I. The Battalion was mentioned in Haig's Dispatches for this. I do not believe in god but I am going to start praying that this road is re-routed or not built at all. Regards Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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