Guest Posted 24 May , 2013 Share Posted 24 May , 2013 Hello folks, I’m doing some research on the 23rd Manchester Battalion at the moment and finding any images is proving to be a bit (okay, a big bit) of a challenge. This is possibly a long shot, but does anyone hereabouts know of any likely sources? Any advice would be gratefully received. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon lee Posted 25 May , 2013 Share Posted 25 May , 2013 Caz, No good for you I'm afraid, but a million to one chance for me. If you happen to find a photo of Lt Col Eustace Lockhart Maxwell (11th Bengal Lancers (Probyn's Horse)) during the next year, I'd be so grateful. He was Killed in their attack of 20th July 1916 at Maltzhorn (?) farm, the Somme. The regiment was sent forward in Companies one at a time. Headquarters was last - apparently the chap who was meant to lead the last company in the attack "failed" and Maxwell handed his waterproof to his orderly/ runner and grabbed the orderly's rifle and bayonet and went over the top instead. He was seen to fall at the German trench.Though the attack failed, it was rumoured some made it to the German Trenches. The bodies lay in No Mans land but many were recovered by night patrols. The chaplain never saw Maxwell's body so it was always presumed (since he was not a prisoner) that his body must have been hit by a shell. Maxwell's letters are in the National Army museum (NAM 7402-34-40 and 7402-30-22 are from his brother's investigations into his death - which is where all this comes from) I desperately need a photo of Maxwell for a regimental history of the Jodhpur Lancers that is being written at this moment. (He was with them from August 1915 till joining the 23rd. I remember in one letter he talks well of the Bantams but says their average weight was between 8 and 8 stone 10. Good Luck Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 25 May , 2013 Share Posted 25 May , 2013 Thanks so much for sharing this, Jon. I keep seeing his signature on papers, so it’s fascinating to learn a bit about his pre-23rd career – and that detail re the circumstances of his death. You’ve probably seen the account in the 23rd’s War Diary, but I’ll pin it below, just in case. There’s also a rather nice line about him in J. W. Sandilands’ ‘A Lancashire Brigade in France’: ‘It was in this costly attack that the Commanding Officer of the 23rd Manchesters, Lieut.-Colonel E. L. Maxwell was killed. How he actually met his death has never transpired. He was last seen leading his men in the gallant manner to be expected of one of such a distinguished group of soldier brothers.’ Rather like that last bit. I'll certainly be following up your lead and making a trip to the National Army Museum (I'm assuming that his letters haven't been digitized?). I didn't know that they existed. I’d like to get hold of a picture of him too, so I’ll keep my eyes peeled and will be in touch if I have any success. Really appreciate this. Thanks – and best of luck with your project. From the 23rd’s War Diary: ‘Date: 20/07/16 Summary of events and information: W and C coys moved to BRICQUETERIE and later on to our new position in front of MALTZ HORN FARM (Sheet 62.C.N.W.) held by 105th Bde. supporting them in an attack made upon the German line at 5. A.M. This was unsuccessful. Y and Z coys with H.Q and Lewis gun detachments received instructions to join the 1st two coys before MALTZ HORN FARM and at 11.30 A.M., in conjunction with the French on our right, attack the enemy trenches. They were not able to arrive in time & the assault had started. Officers & men went over with no clear idea of their direction or objective, & meeting with very heavy artillery, M.G. and rifle fire, ultimately retired to the position of assault. The Batt. remained in to hold the line & at 9 P.M. were relieved by the 18th Lanc. Fus. Major Maxwell fell in the attack. He was the first over and was later reported missing, believed killed. Capts. Rothband & Gosling were killed, Maj. Grimshaw shell-shocked & Capt. Cooper, Lt. Wilson & 2nd Lts. Hamer, Simpson & Tye wounded (2nd Lt. Tye died on the 21st). 28 other ranks were killed, 98 wounded, 9 shell-shocked & 13 missing. The Batt., after relief, moved back to TALUS BOISE.’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacha Maxwell Posted 4 June , 2015 Share Posted 4 June , 2015 Hi I know I am a bit late here, but thank you for the information on Eustace - he was my great grandfather's brother. What they managed to achieve was quite extraordinary and I have only scratched the surface. I would greatly appreciate any help and information that you can give me. I am hoping to get to the records office and go through all the letters that are there. I sadly don't think that any to my GGF David exist at this stage. Sacha Maxwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Tomlinson Posted 7 June , 2015 Share Posted 7 June , 2015 Another late-comer! Perhaps it's 'cos I'm more into family history rather than military research. My grandmother's second husband was with the 23rd Manchesters - 49459 Sgt W Hooper (originally 22747 - 23 Service Batt, Manchester Regiment - 5ft - 1/2inch - Attested 4Jan1915) I've inherited a box full of memorabilia from him and I'me sure it includes some military photos. Actually finding it could be a problem but, if you can PM me your email address, I'll scan and send you copies of anything which looks interesting when I can locate it. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Tomlinson Posted 8 June , 2015 Share Posted 8 June , 2015 I've got to find them first! I have found his medals - still in the original packets and the ribons still folded up. If any of Walter Hooper's direct family come across this (a descendant "Derek Hooper" was looking for info on another board some years ago but his email has expired) please get in touch. You have a greater claim to them than I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Tomlinson Posted 9 June , 2015 Share Posted 9 June , 2015 OK, apart from all the ones walking along the prom. at Blackpool, lets start with this one - Sgt Walter Hooper, his first wife Mary Cox and his children Walter Jnr & Irene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Tomlinson Posted 9 June , 2015 Share Posted 9 June , 2015 An earlier photo of "Corporal" Hooper. Looks to be outside a boarding house with the proprietor and her children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Tomlinson Posted 9 June , 2015 Share Posted 9 June , 2015 This time holding the baby. .... but who is the one man and his dog? (and where's his hat?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Tomlinson Posted 9 June , 2015 Share Posted 9 June , 2015 And finally (for now), I assume that's him in the middle. If anyone has a pressing need for larger copies of any of the photos, please let me know. I might even tidy them up if you ask me nicely. (I also have some very nice ones taken in Blackpool!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 9 June , 2015 Share Posted 9 June , 2015 I assume the ones with the civilians are going to be from the time when they were in Morecambe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Tomlinson Posted 9 June , 2015 Share Posted 9 June , 2015 Morecambe? Tell me more please John. The last time I was there (on a Friday afternoon looking for something to eat) it was closed. I have a couple more photos and some which look like convalescence so presumably not exclusively 23 M/C. I'll post them when I get chance to scan them. I'm not a member of the Manchesters Forum, Tim, so I can't post them there. Please feel free to re-post any you feel might be of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 9 June , 2015 Share Posted 9 June , 2015 Ray I think their first base was at White City in Old Trafford but in December 1914, they moved to Morecambe to continue training and were there until April 1915, when they moved to Grantham (?) with the other Pals battalions. My understanding is that they were billeted in boarding houses and private homes and I reckon the women in the photos are probably their landladies. By the by, should you venture to Morecambe again, you'll probably still find it closed. The comedian, Colin Crompton, described the town as a cemetery with lights. But, it'd be worth popping your head into the revamped Art Deco hotel on the front. There's been a very sympathetic restoration (and the food ain't at all bad) John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Tomlinson Posted 9 June , 2015 Share Posted 9 June , 2015 Thanks John. I wasn't aware of that. As Walter isn't a direct relative of mine, I haven't researched his military history in any depth. He must have been promoted quickly as he wasn't attested until 4 Jan '15. It's been my intention to go and look at the revamped hotel for a while but its a bit of a drag getting there just for that. Morecambe sounds like the way Stockport is heading but its nice to know you can get a decent meal in Morecambe! Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 9 June , 2015 Share Posted 9 June , 2015 but its nice to know you can get a decent meal in Morecambe! More than can be said for the centre of Stockport, as you'll know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Tomlinson Posted 10 June , 2015 Share Posted 10 June , 2015 Exactly what I meant John. Looking at Walters military records, his attestation was signed on 4/1/15 (aged 30y 2m), he was promoted to Corporal on the same day, acting Sergeant on the 24th and Sergeant on the 26th. I assume this reflected his age on enlistment. Time for more scanning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Tomlinson Posted 10 June , 2015 Share Posted 10 June , 2015 I assume this is a "known" photograph and appears to be of the Battalion band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Tomlinson Posted 10 June , 2015 Share Posted 10 June , 2015 No idea what, where or when but I think it says "Scarboro" in the bottom right had corner. WH is back row left hand end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Tomlinson Posted 10 June , 2015 Share Posted 10 June , 2015 Morecambe is making much more sense now John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Tomlinson Posted 10 June , 2015 Share Posted 10 June , 2015 After suffering Pyrexia, PVO (sounds nasty whatever that is), Trench Fever, being posted to the 12 th Batt. WH was wounded in action 0n 23/3/18. Could this be something to do wit that? Sitting on floor 2nd from right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Tomlinson Posted 10 June , 2015 Share Posted 10 June , 2015 Walter Hooper 1884 - 1963. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Tomlinson Posted 10 June , 2015 Share Posted 10 June , 2015 OK, we can forget the photo in post 25. I've discovered something which suggests that it was taken in 1909. Still puzzling PVO though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Pegum Posted 10 June , 2015 Share Posted 10 June , 2015 After suffering Pyrexia, PVO (sounds nasty whatever that is), Trench Fever, being posted to the 12 th Batt. WH was wounded in action 0n 23/3/18. Could this be something to do wit that? That must be PUO: pyrexia of unknown origin. In other words, his temperature is raised and we don't know why! I have quite a lot of information about Major James Fitzgerald Bannatyne, originally in 11th Hussars, who was the C.O. of the 23rd Manchesters from November, 1915. He died, on 14th May, 1916, of wounds sustained in a German artillery attack on 8/9 May, near Neuve Chapelle. The biography is included in a book which will be published in the Autumn. The only photograph I have was taken while he was at Eton (where else?) and I would be very glad of any other photographs of him, of any quality. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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