Help Finding Some "Missing" Men

[Leofwine]

I've been researching the names of the soldiers commemorated on the Brompton (Kent) War Memorial, and have found information on 45 of the 50 First World War names, but the last 5 are eluding me.

Kent Fallen has no information on them (http://www.kentfallen.com/PDF%20REPORTS/BROMPTON.pdf) and I can't locate them in the censuses or military records. Anyone able to find anything about them?

Driver T. Butler, Royal Horse Artillery.

Private A.W. Doyle, Royal Army Service Corps

Private A. H. Goodchild, Royal Army Ordnance Corps

Private R. Scott, Durham Light Infantry

Private W.H. Stace, Worcestershire Regiment

I might have found Goodchild's service number (S/4804) from the medal rolls, but can find no further information.

Thanks for any help you may be able to give with these men.

[welshdoc]

Is the Brompton memorial for those fallen in WW1 or those served?

[IPT]

There is a death registered in Medway Sep qtr 1919 of Alfred H Goodchild, aged 40.

I would suggest that he is quite likely to be your man S/4804.

[Leofwine]

The memorial is for those fallen in WW1.

Thanks IPT I'll check that out. I guess the 1919 date suggests he might have died of wounds or illness?

[arboskittler]

Hi Leofwine.

Ancestry has a 1902 record for a William Henry Stace who attested to the ASC. It gives his next of kin as Mrs Elizabeth Stace (mother) and brothers Thomas, John and Oliver. The address given is 19 Manor Street, Old Brompton, Kent.

Not Great War, I know, but it may give you a bit more of a 'lead' in your searching?

Andy.

[ralphjd]

As Andy has stated this lads records state that he previously served in the R N as a domestic ,1901 census return has a William Stace b 1883 3rd class crew domestic serving aboard HMS Jupitor docked in Gib. Cannot find a death though.

[ralphjd]

May be 5642 ROBERT SCOTT born Shorncliffe according to SDGW , being a Northerner no idea if this is anywhere near Brompton.

[Leofwine]

Thanks for the various replies, some food for thought there. I've ordered the death cert for Goodchild so maybe that will throw some light on that one.

If anyone has any additional clues I'd love to know.

I'm also surprised that on one memorial there are 5 names that don't seem to have a CWGC entry, in other people's experience, is that usual?

Also, in researching the memorial I found 4 more local men who died serving in the war who are not commemorated on the memorial. Is this an unusually high number on a memorial of 50 names?

[Leofwine]

I've partially solved one of them thanks to local papers. This is a summary of what was written about him:

Chatham Observer 23 3 18:

DRIVER ARTHUR WILLIAM MOON

Mech Transport Section of ASC.

Adopted son of Mrs E Doyle of Westcourt St

25yo. Educ Holy Trinity. Corporal Church Lads’ Brigade.

Went to France Sept 1914. In France 2 ½ years. 3 months ago taken to hospital with consumption. Died in Brompton Hospital (NB is this London?) Monday week.

Gillingham Cemetery, Rev WD Driver conducted service. List of mourners.

It seems he served under his birth name, but appears on the memorial under his adopted name.

[KevinBattle]

Presumably you have all these 30?

ALBERY CHARLES ERNEST C E

BENNETT WILLIAM ARTHUR W A

CLARK WILLIAM JOB W J

CRAY GEORGE G

EBELING GILBERT STANLEY G S

ETHERIDGE CHARLES JOSEPH C J

FERRIS CORNELIUS PERCY SPARLING C P S

HAMILL JOSEPH PATRICK J P

HAMMILL WILLIAM PATRICK W P

HAYDEN JAMES HOPE J H

HOOD ERNEST ARTHUR E A

MASTERS FREDERICK F

MAY WILLIAM W

McBRIDE JOHN J

NEAL EDWARD JOSEPH E J

NEAL JOHN HENRY J H

NETHERWAY WILLIAM PHILLIP JOHN W P J

REDGRAVE JOSEPH J

SANFORD FREDERICK WILLIAM EDWARD F W E

SHAVE WILLIAM JAMES W J

SHEPHARD JOSEPH GEORGE JAMES J G J

SPICER GEORGE G

STACE OLIVER GEORGE O G

SULLIVAN JOHN CHARLES J C

SUTTON CHARLEY GEORGE C G

TEBBLE JOHN WILLIAM J W

TOMLIN GEORGE PATRICK G P

TOMLIN JOHN J

WILLIAMS T R

[Leofwine]

Hi KevinBattle.

The ones listed on the memorial are (names and details are as they are listed on the memorial):

Pte. F. C. Baldwin, East Kent Rgt.

Pte. R. F. Baldwin, Royal West Kent Rgt.

Pte. W. J. Barnes, East Kent Rgt.

Tpr. W. Bennett, 9th Lancers

L. Cpl. C. H. Berry, Worcestershire Rgt.

Cpl. W. Bass, Royal West Kent Rgt.

Dvr. T. Butler, R.H.A.

A.B. W. J. Clarke, R.N.

Pte. F. T. Climo, Middlesex Rgt.

Pte. J. J. Cook, Royal Munster Fusiliers

Pte. P. Coyne, Hampshire Rgt.

Pte. W. F. Crust, Worcestershire Rgt.

Lt. E. C. Dawson, Canadian Infantry

Pte. A. W. Doyle, R.A.S.C.

Pte. A. H. Goodchild, R.A.O.C.

Pte. J. P. Hammill, East Kent Rgt.

Pte. W. Hammill, Rifle Brigade.

Pte. W. Harbour, R.M.L.I.

Pte. F. Hughes, R.A.S.C.

Sgt. R. Kinnear, R.E.

2nd Lt. J. A. McCudden, M.C., R.A.F

Major J. T. Byford McCudden, V.C., R.A.F.

Flt. Sgt. W. T. J. McCudden, R.A.F.

Cpl. F. Matthams, R.E.

Pte. E. J. Neal, King's Own Scottish Borderers

Lce. Cpl. J. H. Neal, Royal Welsh Fusiliers

Pte. W. J. Price, Middlesex Rgt.

Pte. J. Redgrave, Army Vetinary Corps.

Sgt. A. Robins, M.M., R.E.

Pte. C. Robins, East Kent Rgt.

Pte. V. Rogers, Royal West Kent Rgt.

Pte. E. Russell, Royal West Kent Rgt.

Pte. F. E. Sandford, Machine Gun Corps.

Pte. R. Scott, Durham Light Infantry

Pte. W. H. Shrubb, Norfolk Rgt

Sgt. D.C. Simpson, East Kent Rgt.

Pte. G. E. Spicer, Royal West Kent Rgt.

Cpl. O. G. Stace, Queens Royal West Surrey Rgt.

Pte. W. H. Stace, Worcestershire Rgt.

Staff Sgt (Farrier) C. G. Sutton, R.F.A.

Spr. D. Summers, R.E.

1st Cl. Sto. J. W. Tebble, R.N.

Pte. V. S. Tebble, Canadian Infantry

Pte. G. J. Tomlin, Hampshire Rgt.

P.O. J. Tomlin, R.N. (Civilian)

Pte. J. C. Sullivan, R.M.L.I.

Rifleman J. H. Wheeler, Rifle Brigade

Pte. A. Wilmot, Canadian Infantry

Pte. T. R. Williams, King's Liverpool Rgt.

Sub. Lt. W. J. C. Williams, R.N.V.S.

Others discovered not on the memorial:

Balcombe, Thomas James - RN

Copeland, T - RN

Jefferey, Tom - RN

Sargent, Alfred James - RN

Shrubsall, Albert Arthur - RMLI

As far as I can see of those you mention, the 14 below are not on either list.

ALBERY CHARLES ERNEST C E

CRAY GEORGE G

EBELING GILBERT STANLEY G S

ETHERIDGE CHARLES JOSEPH C J

FERRIS CORNELIUS PERCY SPARLING C P S

HAYDEN JAMES HOPE J H

HOOD ERNEST ARTHUR E A

MASTERS FREDERICK F

MAY WILLIAM W

McBRIDE JOHN J

NETHERWAY WILLIAM PHILLIP JOHN W P J

REDGRAVE JOSEPH J

SHAVE WILLIAM JAMES W J

SHEPHARD JOSEPH GEORGE JAMES J G J

If you have any information on those (or any other Brompton men not on the lists above) I would be interested in finding out more about them.

[KevinBattle]

That's just entering the "Brompton" address in CWGC (and stripping out all the West Bromptons and other Counties...

I thought you might need more so did this extract from CWGC for you.

Hmm, won't let me add an .xls file, so PM me your email address and I'll send it through

Cheers, Kevin

I see you already have this claim to fame!

Name: James Thomas Byford McCudden. Birth Date: 28 Mar 1895

Birth Place: The Female Hospital, Brompton, Kent. Death Date: 9 Jul 1918

Death Place: No 21 Casualty Station, Aluxi-Le-Chateau, Marquise, France

[KevinBattle]

More?

Name: William Webster Denison. Rank: ERA 2nd. Birth Date: 12 Jul 1889.

Birth Place: New Brompton, Kent. Branch of Service: Royal Navy

Cause of Death: Killed or died as a direct result of enemy action

Official Number Port Division: 271982 (Ch). Death Date: 3 Jul 1919

Ship or Unit: HMS Fandango. Location of Grave: Not recorded

Name and Address of Cemetery: Body Not Recovered For Burial

Relatives Notified and Address: Widow: Lessie, H, 29 Raneleigh Road, Sheerness

DENNISON, WILLIAM WEBSTER. Rank: Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class. Service No: 271982.

Date of Death: 03/07/1919.

Regiment/Service: Royal Navy. H.M.S. "Fandango."

Panel Reference: 32. Memorial CHATHAM NAVAL MEMORIAL

Additional Information: Husband of L. H. Dennison, of 29, Ranelagh Rd., Sheerness.

Name: William Webster Denison. Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1889. Registration District: Medway, Kent

Volume: 2a. Page: 591.

Name: William W Dennison. Spouse: Lessee Harriet Rowswell. Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1918

Registration District: Sheppey, Kent. Volume: 2a. Page: 2555

Name: Lessee H Quick. Birth Date: abt 1894. Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1968

Age at Death: 74. Registration District: Sheppey, Kent. Volume: 5f. Page: 565.

Birth registered as Lessee Harriet Rowswell, but mothers name was Jessie, and that shows as daughters name in 1901 Census, however "Lessee" seems to have stuck with her in all other official documents, and seems she remarried.

Ancestry seems to have frozen, but these come up as "Brompton" but some may need checking - Middlesex?

Thomas Edward Weeks New Brompton, Kent 17 Apr 1915 Buffs (East Kent Regiment)

Leslie George Horace Bond Brompton, Kent 30 Aug 1918 Manchester Regiment

George Patrick Darcey New Brompton, Kent 27 Sep 1915 Loyal North Lancs Regiment

Albert Henry Newman New Brompton, Kent 31 Oct 1914 Queen's (Ryl W Surrey Reg’t)

William Frederick Spicer New Brompton, Kent 25 Mar 1918 Buffs (East Kent Regiment)

William Weeks New Brompton, Kent 29 Mar 1915 Worcestershire Regiment

Percy Victor Withers New Brompton, Kent 15 Jan 1919 Royal Munster Fusiliers

William Baker New Brompton, Kent 16 May 1915 Queen's (Ryl W Surrey Reg’t)

Cyril James Wilmott Dyball Brompton 5 Apr 1918 Ryl Fusiliers (C of L Reg’)

Frederick James Fullard Brompton, Middlesex 24 Sep 1916 East Surrey Regiment

Arthur William Goddard Brompton, Middlesex 2 Jul 1916 Middlesex Regiment

George Charles Greenslade New Brompton 14 Sep 1914 Cavalry

Ernest George Jepson Brompton, Middlesex 22 Aug 1918 Middlesex Regiment

Maurice O'Brien New Brompton 16 Aug 1916 Royal Fusiliers (C of L Reg’t)

Robert Edward Palmer New Brompton, Kent 3 Apr 1917 Essex Regiment

Richard Philip Brompton, Middx. 19 Sep 1918 Connaught Rangers

Frank Riglin Brompton, Middlesex 17 Apr 1918 Essex Regiment

Frank Sartain Brompton, Middx. 17 Sep 1916 Queen's (Ryl W Surrey Reg’t)

William Vernon Simmons Brompton 12 Mar 1915 London Regiment

and these Navy etc deaths....

Name: Albert Edward Killian. Rank: Shipt 2nd. Birth Date: 13 Nov 1888

Birth Place: New Brompton, Kent. Branch of Service: Royal Navy

Cause of Death: Killed or died by means other than disease, accident or enemy action

Official Number Port Division: 346954. (Ch). Death Date: 13 Jun 1919

Ship or Unit: HMS Gibraltar. Location of Grave: F.F. 1245.

Name and Address of Cemetery: Chatham Cemetery, Maidstone Road, Chatham, Kent

Relatives Notified and Address: Mother: Mrs Killian 61, Holcombe Rd, Rochester, Kent

Name: Albert E Killian. Birth Date: abt 1889. Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1919. Age at Death: 30

Registration District: Weymouth, Dorset. Volume: 5a. Page: 339.

KILLIAN, A E. Rank: Shipwright 2nd Class. Service No: 346954(CH). Date of Death: 13/06/1919. Age: 28.

Regiment/Service: Royal Navy. H.M.S. Gibraltar.

Grave Reference: FF. 1245. Cemetery: CHATHAM (MAIDSTONE ROAD) CEMETERY

Additional Information: Son of the late Edward Killian and of Laura Killian (step-mother), of 61, Halcombe Rd., Rochester.

Name: Cornelius Percy Sparling Ferris. Rank: PO Tel. Birth Date: 2 Feb 1879. Birth Place: New Brompton, Kent

Branch of Service: Royal Navy. Cause of Death: Killed or died as a direct result of enemy action

Official Number Port Division: 178611. (Ch). Death Date: 22 Sep 1914. Ship or Unit: HMS Hogue

Location of Grave: Not recorded. Name and Address of Cemetery: Body Not Recovered For Burial

Relatives Notified and Address: Widow: Emma, 22, Albany Rd, Inton, Chatham, Kent.

Name: Alfred Humphrey Lifton. Rank: Shipt 1st. Birth Date: 8 Aug 1879. Birth Place: New Brompton, Kent

Branch of Service: Royal Navy. Cause of Death: Killed or died as a direct result of enemy action

Official Number Port Division: 342645. (Ch). Death Date: 22 Sep 1914. Ship or Unit: HMS Cressy

Location of Grave: Not recorded. Name and Address of Cemetery: Body Not Recovered For Burial

Relatives Notified and Address: Sister: Emily 82 Britton Street Gillingham, Kent. (Served in Boer War)

Name: James William Hussey. Rank: Pte. Birth Date: 18 Nov 1877. Birth Place: Brompton, Kent, England

Branch of Service: Royal Marine Light Infantry. Cause of Death: Killed or died as a direct result of enemy action

Official Number Port Division: Ply/8213 (R.M.R.Ch.B.131). (Ch). Death Date: 22 Sep 1914.

Ship or Unit: HMS Cressy. Location of Grave: Not recorded

Name and Address of Cemetery: Body Not Recovered For Burial

Relatives Notified and Address: Widow: Lilian Augusta May, 15 Cross Street, Chatham. (nee Allsopp)

(Probate records show Administration to Sylvia Lilian May Berry (wife of Albert George Berry, i.e. his sister)

Name: Thomas Edward Weeks. Birth Place: New Brompton, Kent. Residence: New Brompton, Kent

Death Date: 17 Apr 1915. Death Location: France & Flanders. Enlistment Location: Chatham, Kent

Rank: Private. Regiment: Buffs (East Kent Regiment). Battalion: 2nd Battalion. Number: L/8171

Type of Casualty: Killed in action. Theatre of War: Western European Theatre.

WEEKS, THOMAS EDWARD. Rank: Private. Service No: L/8171. Date of Death: 17/04/1915.

Regiment/Service: The Buffs (East Kent Regiment). 2nd Bn.

Panel Reference: Panel 12 and 14. Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL

WEEKS, WILLIAM. Rank: Private. Service No: 9963. Date of Death: 29/03/1915.

Regiment/Service: Worcestershire Regiment. 3rd Bn.

Grave Reference: J. 51. Cemetery: BAILLEUL COMMUNAL CEMETERY, NORD

Sorry, I know you will be tearing your hair out now, but I think it better to have them now, rather than once you "finish" your project!!

[Leofwine]

Thanks for all the additional info/names, I will add them to the list. The New Brompton ones are the neighbouring town (which is now Gillingham), but we are also making a list of those to research if the main Brompton (aka Old Brompton) ones don't take too long. The Brompton, Middlesex ones will be London. There are at least two other Bromptons I know of, one in Yorkshire and one in Shropshire and these have given us a few problems with some research!

The McCudden brothers are commemorated in Brompton with a street named after James McCudden when much of the village was rebuilt in the 1950s.

I'm not tearing my hair out at finding more, but it seems surprising just how many did not make it on to the memorial at the time. We are looking to find as many of those who died from Brompton for a couple of reasons. Our local history group is hoping to add a short biography (and if we can find it, a picture) of each man to our website on the centenary of his death as an additional memorial, and we are also looking at the possibility of getting a new stone engraved and added to the memorial with any other names we find (this will probably be a project for completion in 2018). Obviously we would like the list to be as complete as possible. On the website we are also looking at possibly adding Brompton men who received awards for gallantry or similar on the centenary of the action they got the award for. This will hopefully add a little positive to counter the negative of so many lives lost.

[KevinBattle]

Thanks for the clarification, I didn't know whether New and Old Brompton were "split" and included them (and Middlesex) just in case they were local variations.

I did strip out the Brompton surnames; those in Oz, Yorkshire etc which patently not Kent.

It isn't really surprising that many Names are "missing" as the internet now allows much more refined searches for information.

I've been compiling RoH for a long time now, starting way back in Hockley, Essex where the local RBL Branch had a couple of members who'd been working on compiling one from village talk, newspapers etc. Having access to a computer I was able to search the 2old" CWGC database and almost doubled in a couple of days what they had spent about 20 years compiling by hand.

I felt bad about "interfering" but they made it clear that they had no problems, they'd rather have all the Names than miss anyone out.

That gave me the interest to carry on, but it could easily have been crushed if they had been resentful.

Fortunately they were bigger than that and we were able to have a Roll of Honour installed at the RBL Branch.

You'll probably never get a definitive list, as soon as it's done, someone will discover others!!

Good luck!

PS: I think your T Butler might actually be Sidney George Butler, but there is a George Thomas Butler you might need to check out locally if he died outside CWGC time period but still within date for the War Memorial...

Name: George Thomas Butler. Age in 1911: 19. Estimated Birth Year: abt 1892

Birth Place: Gillingham, Kent. Street Address: 93 Beresford Rd, Gillingham, Kent

Occupation: Dockyard Labourer

Edward Henry Butler, 59; Louisa Ann Butler, 59; William Henry Butler, 35; Arthur John Butler, 24; Rosetta Maud Butler, 21; George Thomas Butler, 19; Grace Florence Butler, 15.

Name: George Thomas Butler. Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1892

Registration District: Medway, Kent. Volume: 2a. Page: 595

Name: George T Butler. Age: 9. Estimated Birth Year: abt 1892

Father's Name: Henry Edward Butler. Mother's Name: Louisa A Butler

Where born: N Brompton, Gillingham, Kent. Address: Beyrout Villas, Beresford Road

Henry E Butler, 48, blacksmith at Dockyard; Louisa A Butler, 48; William D Butler, 23; Henry W Butler, 21; Ellen L Butler, 19; Katie E Butler, 15; Arthur J Butler, 14; Rosette M Butler, 11; George T Butler, 9; Grace F Butler, 5.

BUTLER, SIDNEY GEORGE. Rank: Driver. Service No: 33893. Date of Death: 12/04/1918. Age: 26.

Regiment/Service: Royal Field Artillery. H.Q. 1st Div.

Grave Reference: IV. E. 31. Cemetery: DUHALLOW A.D.S. CEMETERY

Additional Information: Son of George and Elizabeth Butler, of Gillingham, Kent.

Medal Index card shows British War and Victory medals, so mot Overseas until after 1915.

Name: Sidney George Butler. Birth Place: Clapham, S.W. Death Date: 12 Apr 1918.

Death Location: France & Flanders. Enlistment Location: Camberwell, S.E.

Rank: Driver. Regiment: Royal Horse Artillery and Royal Field Artillery. Number: L/33893

His Service records exist, showing change of address for personal effects to Mrs C Gladwin, 18 Regents Road, Gillingham, Kent. Served with A Battery, 184th Brigade RFA. Enlisted 12 July 1915. Entered France 8 March 1916 at Le Havre. On 12 January 1918 sentenced to Field Punishment No. 1 for leaving a government vehicle unattended. Type of Casualty: Died of wounds. Theatre of War: Western European Theatre. NB When checking his Service Records, don't just read forards, but look at earlier pages, they still are his!

[Neil Clark]

If you are sucessful in finding these men - We at Kent Fallen would like to update our BROMPTON page.

If there is anything I can do from my end, please contact me here - clarkneil(at)live.co.uk

Good luck.

Neil

[RR1914]

Whilst searching our local paper (Stroud News, Gloucestershire) for information about Rodborough, Stroud, I came across the following:

22/10/1915

"Mrs David has received on behalf of the Rodborough W.U and T.R.A the following postcard from Gun. Etheridge who is a prisoner of war in Germany.

Gunner Etheridge 71414 27th Battery RFA

No 4 Detachment camp of Dulmen, Westphalia, Germany. September 25th 1915

Dear Madam, ! am writing in answer to two parcels, which I have received from you containing bread, cake, tea, tabloid, cheese, malted milk, toothbrush soap, jam, marmalade, cigarettes, tobacco and sugar, which came in a very good condition. i received them on 19th September and i thank you very much for them.

I don't know if it is of any help, but may be of use to somebody.

Julie