Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

P1888 bayonets


jscott

Recommended Posts

38 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

Short of knocking the "cornflakes" off a relic, or cleaning off light surface rust to read  markings, I like to leave them as I find them.

You and I both in the majority of cases, and i do wish people would leave things alone....but the damage on mine was already done so didn't have much option.

 

Dave.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 25/03/2017 at 10:24, trajan said:

 

Overlooked one on display... So - ye gods, I have eleven! Where did they all come from!

 

A Mk II, EFD, "(0)2 02", with a blurred right ricasso marking that looks to be the bottom of a '16'... BUT, it is under a "crown/35/RE" stamp, and the '16' stamps seem to go with a "crown /X.../ E" stamp (e.g., post no. 195), so, probably not. 

 

Either way, this one does not have a "multiple marking" left ricasso, so that makes it (from the above), eleven I know of that are, but 24 that are not... Again, I stress that my collection of these P.1888's is a random one, and with only two from eleven of mine being "multiple-marked" it looks to be that these "multiple marked" examples are the more unusual.

 

What is needed though is for somebody with time to spare (so, not me!) to check through them all and see if there are recurrent years or not ('04' seems to crop up a lot) that match inspector stamps, then we can test the beloved 'regular inspection' a tad more. 

 

Julian

 

 

Trajan,

 

I considered that an imperial request, so did my duty as a good centurion......

 

I have so far logged 38 P.1888's (25 x EFD; 3 x MOLE; 4 x SAND; 6 x WILK) of which 16 have re-issue dates and 22 do not.

Dates of manufacture (DOM) are, respectively: 89 90 90 91 91 92 92 93 94 95 96 98 01 01 and 2 x not seen (Re-issue dated)

and 

91 92 92 92 92 93 93/5 94 94 95 95 95 96 96 96 96 96 98 01 01 01 02 (Not re-issue dated).

There does not appear to be any pattern that I can discern.

 

Gap between re-issue dates is 2, 3 ,5, even 7 yrs; latest re-issue date is 1916 for a DOM of 1901 !!!

Re-issue dates are: 91 93 94 95 96 98  2 x 99  7 x 00  5 x 03  3 x 04  2 x 05  06 07  and 4 x 16 (Great War ?)

Does the Second Boer War (1899-1902) account for the 2x99, 7x00 and 5x03 data ??

 

Given that production of the P.1888 started at RSAF in 1889, and the 91 re-issue date is on a DOM 89 bayonet, it seems that the initial gap was possibly set at 2 yrs.[Re-reading that, probably an unjustified conclusion.]

 

These data were originally collected as an afterthought to recording the initial inspector stamps upon manufacture, so I have no other info, such as regimental markings.

 

Regards,

JMB

Edited by JMB1943
typo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/15/2018 at 01:55, JMB1943 said:

Trajan,

 

I considered that an imperial request, so did my duty as a good centurion......Re-issue dates are: 91 93 94 95 96 98  2 x 99  7 x 00  5 x 03  3 x 04  2 x 05  06 07  and 4 x 16 (Great War ?) ... Does the Second Boer War (1899-1902) account for the 2x99, 7x00 and 5x03 data ?? ...Given that production of the P.1888 started at RSAF in 1989, and the 91 re-issue date is on a DOM 89 bayonet, it seems that the initial gap was possibly set at 2 yrs.[Re-reading that, probably an unjustified conclusion.]

 

:thumbsup: Many thanks me'lad! I had started to collect similar data but as with so many things I get started on, term comes along with students, then the boys and their homework, etc... Oh, and the cooking schedule interrupts as well from time to time! 

 

But I am very glad that you saw fit to do this, as only by having such data to hand, even in rough format, can this matter of 're-issue' dates on these things start to make sense - or not, as the case might be! One thing that has always struck me, though, is how "proportionally-wise"(!) there seem to be more P.1888's around with these 'reissue' marks than Pre-GW or GW period P.1907's... Any thoughts on that? 

 

Julian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

I thought I’d add this latest addition here, nothing special but I just liked the unit markings and thought it may prove interesting to others.

A fairly standard Mk1 2nd type, manufactured by Sanderson in feb 1899 with no other inspection/re-issue stamps.

Blade is excellent, but all other metal areas were covered in surface rust, fortunately not too invasive, left some staining but I quite like that so will leave as is.

Originally issued to the 4th volunteer battalion South Wales Borderers ( not sure of boer war service but a contingent was sent) then in 1904 sidelined to the cadet corps attached to the 4th (note the different size of stamps used on the pommel).

Not as such matching numbers, but scabbard date is same as issued piece (99), there’s obviously been a mix up of scabbards at some point but nice to see a fairly original pairing with unusual markings.

 

Dave.

 

 

C2AFEB52-77A3-46EA-8EE6-3D3C1FD7D6AD.jpeg

B37157B1-A836-466A-979D-888055D0A00C.jpeg

Edited by Dave66
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Dave66 said:

I thought I’d add this latest addition here, nothing special but I just liked the unit markings and thought it may prove interesting to others.

A fairly standard Mk1 2nd type, manufactured by Sanderson in feb 1899 with no other inspection/re-issue stamps.

Blade is excellent, but all other metal areas were covered in surface rust, fortunately not too invasive, left some staining but I quite like that so will leave as is.

Originally issued to the 4th volunteer battalion South Wales Borderers ( not sure of boer war service but a contingent was sent) then in 1904 sidelined to the cadet corps attached to the 4th (note the different size of stamps used on the pommel).

Not as such matching numbers, but scabbard date is same as issued piece (99), there’s obviously been a mix up of scabbards at some point but nice to see a fairly original pairing with unusual markings.

 

Dave.

 

 

C2AFEB52-77A3-46EA-8EE6-3D3C1FD7D6AD.jpeg

B37157B1-A836-466A-979D-888055D0A00C.jpeg

Very nice Dave.  

My winter work is locally based. Unfortunately my favourite local junk shop closed down a few months back, and my local antique shop last month, so I haven't had much time to rummage recently and I haven't found one for sale in a while; it's nice to see they are still out there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

Very nice Dave.  

My winter work is locally based. Unfortunately my favourite local junk shop closed down a few months back, and my local antique shop last month, so I haven't had much time to rummage recently and I haven't found one for sale in a while; it's nice to see they are still out there.

Struggling to find them here GWF (only 2nd this year), an awful lot of these places have gone by the wayside locally here as well, I can’t seem to find much militaria as I used to full stop, even with the online chaps these old timers are far fewer than they were and prices are rising, such a shame....it’s harder work for us collectors.

I had to pay decent money for that one which hurt, an antique dealer that “never does the internet” but always seems to have a fairly good idea of price!!

 

Dave.

 

Edited by Dave66
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dave,

 

What a nice pairing of bayonet and scabbard.

I think that this is the first time that I have seen the markings on a P.88 scabbard, and very sharp still!

Any maker's marks on the locket or chape?

 

Regards,

JMB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, JMB1943 said:

Dave,

 

What a nice pairing of bayonet and scabbard.

I think that this is the first time that I have seen the markings on a P.88 scabbard, and very sharp still!

Any maker's marks on the locket or chape?

 

Regards,

JMB

It certainly is unusual to be able to read them JMB, metal parts stained but from what I can see locket has crown/B/8 and chape has crown/B/3.

Any thoughts welcome.

 

Kindest regards,

 

Dave.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dave,

 

Crown/B/8 & crown/B/3 seem similar to the marking on the scabbard, crown/B/83--or is it?

Looking again at that, even with a glass, I can't decide on B or E.

How does it look in hand??

Is the bayonet made by SANDERSON? If so, then maybe they sent inspectors up from Birmingham to Sheffield.

 

Regards,

JMB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, JMB1943 said:

Dave,

 

Crown/B/8 & crown/B/3 seem similar to the marking on the scabbard, crown/B/83--or is it?

Looking again at that, even with a glass, I can't decide on B or E.

How does it look in hand??

Is the bayonet made by SANDERSON? If so, then maybe they sent inspectors up from Birmingham to Sheffield.

 

Regards,

JMB

Bayonet is Sanderson, with the standard Sanderson S inspection stamps, I’m fairly sure all the scabbard markings are B and not E even though similar I’m appearance....interesting to seen if RSAF either supplied or just inspected Sanderson scabbards.

 

 

Dave.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excellent Post there Jscott, 
I love the way you introduce each with the unit’s history. As a collector, I love that.

Is there a major book to be had that covers most or ( hope) all U.K. Unit, regiment  markings? 

Everyone has heard of various British units and So. African, but did the Irish, Scott’s and Welsh also have their own unique “Named” unit’s as well?

As far as collecting, I have seen a few (long version) Indian pattern bayonets, I do not have one, but are they also popular with collections?

Again, great presentation there,loved reading it, hope there will be more to follow, Thank you

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a bit of a thing for P1888. 

 

FB_IMG_1574191193495.jpg.450cd4cb0598673307b3001e072c578d.jpg

 

FB_IMG_1574191333336.jpg.9ac626b88fa32611a2431486a8df0c50.jpg

 

Here are my Mk1 3 rivets. No unit markings except for S20 on Pommel. Lots of inspection markings etc. 

IMG_20191119_192528.jpg.2f70ac7b9285f16cb90df40e0b0ffa52.jpg

 

IMG_20191119_192554.jpg.1cfaded50f1f83ef352da7df9c049da3.jpg

 

IMG_20191119_192622.jpg.2404460e22e3cd7881c9b5351ccea953.jpg

 

FB_IMG_1574191856115.jpg.a64aaaa618b714cfbf44dea7161dfc97.jpg

Edited by Toby Brayley
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 19/11/2019 at 19:30, Toby Brayley said:

I have a bit of a thing for P1888. 

 

FB_IMG_1574191193495.jpg.450cd4cb0598673307b3001e072c578d.jpg

 

FB_IMG_1574191333336.jpg.9ac626b88fa32611a2431486a8df0c50.jpg

 

Here are my Mk1 3 rivets. No unit markings except for S20 on Pommel. Lots of inspection markings etc. 

IMG_20191119_192528.jpg.2f70ac7b9285f16cb90df40e0b0ffa52.jpg

 

IMG_20191119_192554.jpg.1cfaded50f1f83ef352da7df9c049da3.jpg

 

IMG_20191119_192622.jpg.2404460e22e3cd7881c9b5351ccea953.jpg

 

FB_IMG_1574191856115.jpg.a64aaaa618b714cfbf44dea7161dfc97.jpg

Excellent Toby...love them all.

 

Dave.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Toby & Terry,

 

Wonderful, wonderful!

Either my screen has a distinctly green tint, or........

 

Regards,

JMB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another fine collection,

i am particularly jealous of that Mk 3 second from bottom.

 

Dave.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

good morning,

 

superb collection  :w00t: :thumbsup:

 

here's my copy. 
Markings:
14 C.L.


dated August 1899


manufactured by Enfield (if I'm not mistaken).

 

DSCN1623.JPG.6f23e83240f68e70167f0e435346b8b5.JPG

 

957298512_14CL-242-AOUT1899-Enfiel.JPG.a923fd0d4f33c6cf1e692cf56179e941.JPG

 

DSC_0006.JPG.a5dceed55733b4daffd750649a1a0e29.JPG

 

DSC_0007.JPG.833972f952c835a61ee73131c7b9e718.JPG

 

926423992_leemetford(7).JPG.4f064e30c3388a64abfefe7015f2ca08.JPG

 

793356441_leemetford(9).JPG.26ba4ece9724e812d0efe7b992d5b94d.JPG

 

127849773_leemetford(10).JPG.01fffc8a6665476b9544ce3a252fd3cc.JPG

 

1612785101_leemetford(8).JPG.68b6f8c2700b7e1cac291f3ee2234dbf.JPG

 

regards

 

michel

Edited by battle of loos
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

New addition. 

2/94 dated. Marked to 1 CAM 

71DB2D5D-23E4-417B-BFED-4A0D7FCAD10C.jpeg.d714e5f61196b94e49394681a2af262c.jpeg

903B4052-68CC-42FB-BE2D-E4C620660E6A.jpeg.2680525937a9f6b1c004641ce8efe30b.jpeg

8D817809-31AA-44D9-A376-1B1F6472B81C.jpeg.c31dc33095121d046c723a590d89e221.jpeg

E0D63CC3-F718-4424-94B9-EA9701075081.jpeg.414f2bd93ba79d0695a984675126ac01.jpeg

EE4949B1-7B7A-4272-8EE2-7F7704186915.jpeg.404e8929dc7370620471146cb1747ec1.jpeg

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice to see a new 1888, thanks for posting GWF.

I have number 663 to the 1sr Cameron highlanders but mine is a later 11 97 Wilkinson, presumably replacing ones like yours which were reduced from service, inspection stamps on mine are 04 and 05.

 

Dave.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GWF,

 

I echo Dave's sentiments--another honest-to-goodness Patt. 88 at last; seems like forever since we have seen one!

 

First that I have seen with the RR (condemned??) stamp.

Also, some history with the 1 CAM overstruck on something else; made in 2 '93 (?) and re-inspected '95, '96, '97 and '99.

 

Regards,

JMB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As with JMB, nice to see one of these again!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 27/04/2021 at 20:14, JMB1943 said:

First that I have seen with the RR (condemned??) stamp.

And then another turns up within two days!  

 

On 27/04/2021 at 17:51, Dave66 said:

Nice to see a new 1888, thanks for posting GWF.

1 hour ago, trajan said:

As with JMB, nice to see one of these again!

Thanks. I seem powerless to resist!

Edited by GWF1967
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 21/11/2019 at 14:35, Terrylee said:

So have I!

1 - Copy.JPG

2.jpg

Terry,

 

These five P. 88's display 2 (3?) different shapings at the ricasso.

Could you give the maker's name for each of these?

 

Regards,

\JMB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JMB,  Top to bottom:

 

Mk I Enfield (2.90)

Mk I(2) Wilkinson (12.97)

Mk II Wilkinson (5.02)

Mk III Sanderson (2.05)

South African Railways (WW II) 

 

 Terry  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...