.303 bullet

[Doc2]

Paul,

I'm at a disadvantage in that I don't watch much television, and so I have no idea what "Ripper Street" is, though I'll hazard a guess that it's about late 19th Century London crime ?

Pump action shotguns were certainly around in Jack's time - Spencers made one in the early 1880's - but it would have been rare for one to be seen in England, I think.

Winchester came up with the first really successful one as the M1897 (which was miltarised to become the Trench Broom). They also produced the 1887 lever action gun - was it perhaps one of these you saw, and mistook the lever reloading for racking a pump ?

An early version of the M-1897 Winchester was the M-1893, so commercially available at least after 1893.

[Luke0000]

Centurion, bullets squeeze themselves (or rattle) down a bore of approximate size, even if they are not a perfect fit. Lots of examples - you can whack a .32-20WCF down a .310 Greener bore, for example. Not to be recommended of course, and I must echo the warning given on most US made ammunition and rifles - only use ammunition for which a rifle is chambered.

The bullet in the OP did not start out with a five sidedsection - it would have been round. The shape and rifling of the bore of whatever it was fired through is what has imparted this shape to it.

Polygonal rifling is still quite widespread - Glock pistols use it. You just shoot standard 9mm through, and if you examine the bullet later you can measure the slight distortion, which is just about discernible to the naked eye.

The puzzle in this thread is not what the bullet is - it is "what was it shot from?" Indeed , that's the question Terrylee posed.

Well say it was a smaller than barrel bullet, the bullet round, the barrel pentagonal, and say its powerful...So a custom made gun, the user ran out of ammunition, and didnt want to pay for more of the specialist stuff, so it rattles down at high power, its going to get a MAJOR indent to it...But that would need a VERY high powered rifle, so more on the ranging of a sniper rifle...such as the No.10 M24

And of course its not meant to be in that, so would go off target maybe, land just on the edge of the range, the shooter wont be bothered to get it, or may be more bothered about the damage to his gun, or in shock from the noise it might have made...

Of course custom guns, I might suggest it may have used a amount of pressured air to increase the muzzle velocity...So a newer gun it would have to be in that case

--Just a rough guess, I'm not expert in this field, but certainly not fired from the right gun...

[Luke0000]

William billinghurst, gunmaker just to throw into the mix http://www.american-firearms.com/american-firearms/z-html/company-B/Billinghurst,%20William/Billinghurst,%20William.html

7 shot guns, would fit in with the constant soiling of the barrel...he had also made octagonal barrels...Emperor of Brazil ordered a rifle from him...1 for India as well so the fact for far range specialist HIGH POWER guns, and a octagonal barrel instead of a more normal hexagonal or cylinderical, and the fact alot of his guns were...experimental to say the least, This would make him a prime candidate

[auchonvillerssomme]

Couldn't it just be a .303 with deep lands?

This one isn't as deep but its a .303 from the Somme region.

[Luke0000]

Couldn't it just be a .303 with deep lands?

This one isn't as deep but its a .303 from the Somme region.

They'd be standard made, their would be a reason for the deep lands...Which is all in WHICH GUN WAS IT FIRED FROM?

[auchonvillerssomme]

I meant the depth of lands on the bullet, not the rifling, it depends on the wear of the barrel, the one I pictured is deeper than most I've seen but I given the context I have no reason to believe it isn't a Mark VII .303.

[Luke0000]

I meant the depth of lands on the bullet, not the rifling, it depends on the wear of the barrel, the one I pictured is deeper than most I've seen but I given the context I have no reason to believe it isn't a Mark VII .303.

Oh yes, that's a valid point...especially considering its a specialist gun that the barrel can get soiled quickly, And the ammunition is expensive for, maybe it took a lot of wear and tear from firing wrong bullets?

But from the picture it looked as if you were referring to the rifling as lands, as its quite a dark image.

[TonyE]

I doubt we shall ever know the truth behind this, but one possible candidate occurred to me, that it was shot from a VERY shot out Vickers barrel.

The grooves would have been so flame eroded that the barrel would go from cylindrical cross section with distinct grooves to polygonal before collapsing completely.

The attached picture offers a more extreme modern comparison. It is a sectioned .50 inch Browning barrel from a firefight in Afghanistan and is currently in the Small Arms Wing of the Defence Academy at Shrivenham. It clearly shows how bad things can get when there is either no new barrel available or no opportunity to change it! Goodness knows what the bullets that left that barrel looked like.

Regards

TonyE

[T8HANTS]

They used to display some L60 Bofors barrels at Larkhill that made that .50 Browning look nearly new.