Kitchener's Bugle Posted 12 May , 2013 Share Posted 12 May , 2013 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW1-British-Memorial-Marker-block-of-Portland-stone-damaged-from-Belgium-Ypres-/111071177111?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item19dc5ba997 See also his other items listed for the German plaque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wood Posted 12 May , 2013 Share Posted 12 May , 2013 Doesn't seem a good idea to put any monetary value on CWGC stones - how long before some not-so-bright spark decides to collect a few from the local cemetery or churchyard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anneca Posted 12 May , 2013 Share Posted 12 May , 2013 I agree with Phil and don't think any monetary value should be placed on CWGC stones. I see that it has been rescued and was going to be used as hardcore in a road project. Great about the rescue but for monetary gain, I think not. I don't see why it can't sit in front of the replacement stone. Anne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest exuser1 Posted 12 May , 2013 Share Posted 12 May , 2013 Always wondered when this would happen ,the CWWG have for many years used old damaged head stones as hard core for tracks in some of the more out of the way sites ,just last year noted on one track on the Somme 100s of broken stones used as infill and even took a few myself that could be researched and was surprised that they had originally come from the Calais area ,they now reside in the front area of the house along with the SRD jars and shell cases ,seems quite a few doing this now . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 12 May , 2013 Share Posted 12 May , 2013 This old thread could be of interest. CGM Personally I think broken or damaged or faulty CWGC stones are rubbish and re-cycling wherever they can be of good use is a sensible way to go. Just my thoughts, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 12 May , 2013 Share Posted 12 May , 2013 My thought is that the CWGC could be a bit more careful and put them through a crusher before using them as hardcore. There again, they may not mind about leaving "souvenirs" lying around for auction. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 12 May , 2013 Share Posted 12 May , 2013 I know of a complete headstone being used as a doorstep. It was produced in the 1920's to mark the grave of a man from the 1st Canadian Contingent who died in the winter of 14/15 at Larkhill. His body was repatriated to Canada, but an official glitch resulted in the IWGC producing the headstone. The local vicar nabbed it,used it as a doorstep to his house, and there it remains to this day. Forgive me for not identifying the man nor the location of the stone, but the current occupant of the house may not want the fact widely known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 12 May , 2013 Share Posted 12 May , 2013 My thought is that the CWGC could be a bit more careful and put them through a crusher before using them as hardcore. ...........Phil Good point. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest exuser1 Posted 12 May , 2013 Share Posted 12 May , 2013 Good point. I agree. I would expect this to be a added cost element? The ones I see are fair size chunks though not the size of the item up for auction which does seem a bit of a beast to post ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Posted 12 May , 2013 Share Posted 12 May , 2013 Not a CWGC headstone, but a mate of mine once had a piece of marble headstone - never used; spooling mistook! - as a chopping board. He used the 'other' side. Roxy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 12 May , 2013 Share Posted 12 May , 2013 Surely the "problem",if there is one, rests with "us" and desire to possess WW1 artefacts,in there widest sense, and the dealers/sellers are merely trying to tap in to that market for personal gain. I agree,that it is a sad reflection of today's society,that worn out,broken,cast-off,etc CWGC/VDK markers are now seen of having value. Writing personally,I,through accident of birth,have an Uncle who "died of wounds" in 1915 and has a marked grave.Little now remains,of his life,other than a period Newspaper "group" photograph and an individual "blow up". I have both a group "original" plus the "blow up", however,It is through Forum contact that I have been able to take a stab at the events i.e.Son shortly to be deployed to France, Local Newspaper,pre-departure photo taken,copy bought,Son dies so photo manipulated for an "individual" extract. Whether his CWGC Headstone is original, has been replaced,marks his correct burial place, was interfered with during WW2 occupation,etc,etc is of no interest to me.I know without fuss,fanfair,etc where he is! Would I be interested in buying a CWGC Regimental Headstone cast-off to further mark his passing?No! But there must be a modern market for such items. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchener's Bugle Posted 12 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 12 May , 2013 Thanks for all of the comments - I must admit that the whole idea of assigning a monetary value does not sit well with me either!. George, makes a very good point about our desire to own and collect all things war related. What are your thoughts on the German plaque, I know there are a lot of fakes out there of WW1 stuff - does it look a bit too good to be true?. Realise that it says that it has been re-sprayed. Be interesting to see what he lists next! KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 12 May , 2013 Share Posted 12 May , 2013 I had understood that CWGC standing policy was to render the personal details illegible before a headstone to be replaced was removed from the grave. I've seen many examples over the years and never once seen one where the personal details have been left on an intact stone or section of stone (though in many cases you could have worked out whose stone it had been from part details and the cemetery register). The OP looks like the result of some sloppy workmanship. Tom (Nb - if this post appears to be out of sync with any preceding posts, please be aware that it could have been delayed as I "... have been placed on moderator queue. This means that all content you submit will need to be approved by a moderator before it will be shown.") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wood Posted 12 May , 2013 Share Posted 12 May , 2013 What are your thoughts on the German plaque, I know there are a lot of fakes out there of WW1 stuff - does it look a bit too good to be true?. Realise that it says that it has been re-sprayed. My thoughts are the same as for the CWGC fragment - if grave markers become valuable collectables then there is a very real danger that they will start disappearing from cemeteries. I would never buy such an item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 13 May , 2013 Share Posted 13 May , 2013 Veering off the original topic just a little, but staying on the macabre, what about "souvenirs" claimed to have been taken from crashed aeroplanes whose occupants were killed - a not uncommon practice. A few years ago, a postcard dealer was offering a card showing a aeroplane that had crashed on Salisbury Plain with a small piece of fabric attached to it that was said to have come from the wreckage. And something similar with a Wiltshire connection was being offered on eBay recently. I wasn't interested; apart from anything else I'm always dubious about the authenticity. Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest exuser1 Posted 13 May , 2013 Share Posted 13 May , 2013 As with the above comment there seems no problem collecting wreckage from crashed Zeppelins? back to the grave stones the ones I come across tend to be no more than 10/12 inches across and 6 or so deep many with just a couple of letters ,but a few not many have included the regimental number , the one on e bay does not seem as though its been broken up for use as hard core ,but may have been diverted from that use before being rendered unsalable in the vendors eyes . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarylW Posted 13 May , 2013 Share Posted 13 May , 2013 My God, there's no accounting for taste. Who on earth would want to own and have a piece of a gravestone in or outside their home. Ghoulish and no thanks. What possible satisfaction could anyone have from owning this or anything like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River97 Posted 13 May , 2013 Share Posted 13 May , 2013 I'm probably sticking my nose out here, but I have, for some reason, always wanted a CWGC headstone. Something to an unknown soldier of the Great War. The difference being, that I would pay for it to be made. I also don't have an issue with those picking up pieces of road base. A small personal memorial to sit on the mantle piece. The issue I do have is when they appear on EBay or other auction sites. I don't approve of it but what can we do? I guess we can just hope that nobody bids. Cheers, Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eairicbloodaxe Posted 13 May , 2013 Share Posted 13 May , 2013 I've just acquired a soldier's Death Plaque... not sure whether that puts me in the ghoulish camp or not? Even though my hobby is frequenting graveyards, I'm not sure I'd like to own a piece of headstone. But for some reason a bronze medallion that serves the same purpose seems completely OK. Hmmm... Regards Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarylW Posted 13 May , 2013 Share Posted 13 May , 2013 Ian, Each to their own. I personally don't find the collection of death plaques ghoulish, but others might think I'm ghoulish for my interests, in fact I know they do. I can't pass a cemetery anywhere without wanting to stop and have a look. I had a phone call from a family member last year to pass on birthday greetings when I was in the middle of Auchonvillers cemetery and when I told them where I was their reaction was 'oh you are weird'.! I wonder how the family of the person whose partial headstone was up on ebay would react to the news that bits of their relations' gravestones were being sold in this way, or kept as souvenirs. If it were any of my family members I don't think I'd be very happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbarchetta Posted 13 May , 2013 Share Posted 13 May , 2013 Veering off the original topic just a little, but staying on the macabre, what about "souvenirs" claimed to have been taken from crashed aeroplanes whose occupants were killed - a not uncommon practice. A few years ago, a postcard dealer was offering a card showing a aeroplane that had crashed on Salisbury Plain with a small piece of fabric attached to it that was said to have come from the wreckage. And something similar with a Wiltshire connection was being offered on eBay recently. I wasn't interested; apart from anything else I'm always dubious about the authenticity. Moonraker I bought that postcard! I don't think anyone died in the crash (they would normally have said so on the postcard), but the postcard was nice, and the fragment of cloth has "Relic from army biplane wrecked near camp Salisbury Plain, May 26th 1913" - so I figured this was not a million miles from the trench art/souvenirs from wrecked zeppelins (sorry, German airships)... Suspect I also hadn't bought much at that particular fair, so was just keen to acquire something vaguely trench art related!! Small world... James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 13 May , 2013 Share Posted 13 May , 2013 It wasn't an army biplane, as such, but a Bristol tractor biplane used by the Bristol Flying School to teach civilians and military men to fly. The School's Collyns Pizey was pilot, with H Fellows his passenger. When Fellows announced that the fuel inlet had broken and the engine was on fire, Pizey shut off the engine and made a steep glide, with the heat forcing Fellows to leave his seat and cling on to the wing stays. No sooner had the men landed a mile from the Bristol sheds (still standing) at Lark Hill than the petrol tank exploded, wrecking the machine. The two men escaped with scratches. The two cards I have of the scene show that there was very little fabric left, mostly on the left upper plane. Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 13 May , 2013 Share Posted 13 May , 2013 ... I don't approve of it but what can we do? I guess we can just hope that nobody bids. ... Checking EBay's T&Cs I see that the item in the OP contravenes their rules as it is "a grave-related item". I've clicked the appropriate buttons. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchener's Bugle Posted 14 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 14 May , 2013 I cannot pass a cemetery either and I do have a few death plaques... but I would never think of trying to lift a Gravestone. It is a good point from Phil in #14 I feel, if they will steal lead from the church roof and money from the collection box then why not Grave Stones (if there is a market of course for them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 14 May , 2013 Share Posted 14 May , 2013 Checking EBay's T&Cs I see that the item in the OP contravenes their rules as it is "a grave-related item". I've clicked the appropriate buttons. Tom Well spotted Tom. I have added my report. If they can't be sold online it should curtail the market for them. CGM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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