Are you working on a Norfolk UK, WW1 Memorial?

[RoninReepham]

This is to any one working on the many WW1 Memorials in Norfolk UK.

are you willing to get together to talk about what you are doing? possibly also share what you have found? Pooling the information so any one looking for someone from Norfolk can get information quickly?

there has been a lot in EDP recently and thought it might be an idea to help each other out?

[DG65]

Hello. I am just starting to research WW1 Memorials. WW2 is my main interest, but now moving towards WW1. Never seem to have much time to meet up and talk about things, as I am always working late shifts.

But more than willing to share on here.

Guess what started me thinking about the chaps, who gave their all for the country. Was this CWGC headstone. For years I had passed it on the way to work. Finally I decide to stop and take a close look.

Was a bit surprised to see it was for two soldiers so just had to find out more.

I have visited the Church at Croxton, which is in ruins and the graveyard so overgrown that I have been unable to locate either grave.

This is what I have found out about them.

Todd Bertie
Private 5312 Norfolk Regiment 3rd/5th Bn.
Commonwealth war dead 24th April 1916 age 28.
Son of George and Hannah Todd, of Fulmodeston, Guist NFK

Died at home.

Born Edgefield. lived at The common Hindolveston in 1911. Worked on the Railway.

1901. lived at 104 The cottage, the street Hindolveston.

Siblings Albert, John, Charles, Ellen and Edith.

Utting Herbert James.
Private 3/7764 Norfolk Regiment 3rd Bn.
Commonwealth war dead 30th May 1915 age 17.
Son of James and Louisa Utting, of Barney, Guist, Norfolk. Born at Fulmodeston.

Born 13th June 1897. Joined army 20th July 1914. died at home 30th May 1915.

1911 census.
Head James Utting 44 Agriculture labour born Fulmodeston
Wife Louisa 36 married 11yrs born kettlestone
Son Tuck Herbert James 13 Agriculture labour born Fulmodeston
Son Albert George 10 born Croxton
(Louisa born 1874 married 1899, died 1931 aged 56)

1901 census.

It seems that Herbert was staying at Bodham with his uncle and aunt.

Walter Reck 38 and Eliza Reck 32. Herbert Tuck 3.

1891 Census. Herbert’s Mother.
Surname. First names. Relationship. Sex. Age. Occupation. Where born.
Tuck James Head M 36 Agric labour Kettlestone.
Tuck Susan Wife F 37 Billingford.
Tuck Louisa Daughter F 16 Domestic Kettlestone.
Tuck John W son M 14 Agric labour kettlestone.
Tuck Henry son M 12 Agric Labour Kettlestone.
Tuck George son M 10 Scholar Kettlestone.
Tuck Albert son M 9 Scholar Kettlestone.
Tuck Isaac son M 4 Kettlestone.

It appears that Herbert was born out of wedlock, two years before his mother married.
Now was his second name, James given to him because his father was James Utting or named after his grandfather James Tuck?
Sometime between 1911 and him joining the army he had changed his name to Utting.

His joining up form.

I am no nearer Knowing how they died, as they both died at home and their battalions appear not to have been sent overseas.

I am now researching the names on a memorial plaque in Barney Church and have come out with some interesting facts.

Will start a thread on that as soon as I get a moment.

[RoninReepham]

It's when you get interesting family histories and stories it gets really interesting have a few men who where born out of wedlock but living with grand parents etc I'm also surpised how many are related cousins in laws etc

[PRC]

Late to to the party, as always :-)

Only just come across this thread while I was doing some research on......a Norfolk War Memorial. Roughton, to be precise.

What I find will normally end up on my Flickr account - I keep meaning to take the time to find out how to set up my own web-site but somehow never quite get round to it.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/43688219@N00/sets/72157602878507924/

After Roughton, the ones I have the pictures taken for are:-

West Runton

Metton

Buxton,

Guist

Hemblington

Sheringham

Norwich - Christchurch, New Catton

Norwich - St Marks, Lakenham

Norwich - St Michael Coslany, (part)

Norwich - Octagon Chapel, Colegate

Norwich - St Stephens

Great Yarmouth

if I get to visit other villages that are not covered elsewhere on the internet, then I'll tend to bump them up.

DG65 - just tried a little bit of hunting around for your two men.

Bertie Todd first of all. Aged 28 when he died in April 1916, which would put him as born circa 1887/1888. However, the only Bertie whose birth was recorded in Norfolk in the likely time frame was a Bertie John, who from his baptism records at Brockdish church was the son of a single parent, Mary Todd.

Going back to the 1901 census, (taken in March of that year), he was already aged 15. Unfortunately the online records I have access to don't cover baptisms at the Edgefield church. It may be co-incidence, but the birth of a Bertie Todd was recorded in the July to September quarter of 1886 in the Erpingham District of Norfolk, (which includes Edgefield). Main reason for looking is that there is no death of a Bertie Todd recorded in Norfolk in 1916 in the General Registrars Officer index of deaths, so I was wondering if he was an Albert\Herbert, etc.

The death of a 29 year old Bertie Todd was recorded in the Cambridge District in the April to June quarter of 1916 and is a possible candidate.

The death of the 17 year old Herbert J Utting was recorded in the Woodbridge District of Suffolk in the April to June quarter of 1915.

[Kitty55]

Hi

Dereham Cenotaph Heroes is already in a book format in the reserve section of Dereham Library (I've got my own copy having helped with it) and there is also a website on the Cenotaph Fallen.

At present I'm going through those who came back - over 700 names to research so far.

I'd appreciate any help from relatives who have already found out something about one/any of them - after all there's no point in repeating someone else's research - it's far better to compliment it and do a fair exchange. I might be able to do that with articles from the local paper - the Dereham and Fakenham Times. The paper also has several photos in it which I've already got copies of. Eventually in a few years I will be writing a book on Dereham through the Great War and if anyone wishes their family member (from Dereham) to be in it I'm more than willing to do so - full credits will be given to those concerned. I've already got several.

Dereham's first memorial - the Roll of Honour lists nearly all the soldiers from town who enlisted to fight, who died and where and what regiment they started or ended in during the war. Having said that the biggest problem I've found is trying to find out the service numbers and then to add to the problem several changed regiment to fill up the numbers - esp. the 2/5th & 3/5th Norfolks - the 5th Batt. Norfolk Regiment Depot being in town.

So I'm now searching ancestry, findmypast and the Forces War Records for them - some are there others aren't. And to add to my problems there are some that aren't on the town's Roll of Honour but records show them as being from Dereham and nowhere else - hence a book in a couple of years - it's a long search but one I feel should be done as everyone seems just to concentrate on the dead soldiers.

thanks and take care, Kitty

[PRC]

Great Work Kitty - one of the challenges I look forward to is when a village remembers those who served as well as those who had fallen. The wealth of material on the War dead can make it seem daunting to go looking for the survivors when you have no fixed point to base your research around. Thats where censuses and baptismal records really come into play!

I've not actually been to East Dereham cemetery, but its on the to do list. If its anything like the other big cemeteries in Norfolk, then probably for every official War Grave, there will be at least another one commemorating a son, grandson or husband who died in some foreign land and occasionally even the odd individual who died after being discharged but whose headstone makes it clear they died as a result of wounds or illness incurred on active service.

This poor chap died in 1973 and is buried in Norwich having been disabled at the Battle of Loos in September 1915 whilst serving with the 9th Norfolks.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/43688219@N00/4411831988/

This lady died in 1974 and was finally re-united with her husband who fell in France in 1917 - was a useful confirmation when it came to researching her husband name on the Hindringham village war memorial.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/43688219@N00/2495066195/in/photostream/

Along with obituaries in the local papers and reports of coroners inquests, those headstones can be a real treasure trove.

BTW - don't know if its any help with your project, but just took a look at the Australian National archive and with a simple search ("Dereham" 1914 -1920), came across three soldiers whose place of birth was East Dereham. All have digital copies of their Army records available to view for free.

Charles Herbert Balding - when he enlisted in March 1915 he gave his brother as his next of kin who was still at Wendling, East Dereham. He survived the war although spent a considerable time in hospital after being wounded in action in August 1918, finally being medically discharged in 1920. There is a letter from his widow in the file confirming he deceased in 1966.

http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/DetailsReports/ItemDetail.aspx?Barcode=3046557&isAv=N

http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/scripts/Imagine.asp?B=3046557

Laurence James Bushell. Enlisted in July 1915 and served in a Machine Gun Company. He worked his way up the ranks, although on one occasion was busted back down again after going AWOL and spent 6 weeks in a Military Prison, but subsequently received the Military Medal and the Distinguished Conduct Medal. Survived the war.

http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/scripts/Imagine.asp?B=3175407

Charles Willimott. Enlisted September 1914 and served in the 4th Division Motor Transport Company. His next of kin is his father and is still in the East Dereham area.After a couple of operations in hospital in September 1918, he returned to Australia in October.

http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/scripts/Imagine.asp?B=8389958

(Those are all brief extracts - there may well be more in the other pages)

[Kitty55]

Hi

Yep they are all on my list - thanks for the help.

thanks and take care, Kitty

[Kitty55]

Hi PRC

If you are going to visit Dereham Cemetery may I make a suggestion that you firstly get a copy of the Mid-Norfolk Family History grave sites (Dereham Cemetery - part 1) booklet as the cemetery is vast and it'll save you hours of searching amongst the graves.

They have done a lot of work locally and it's always worth checking out their website. - just type in Mid-Norfolk Family History Group (I can't get their link to work - never have been able to, so I don't think it's the way I'm doing it.) Then go to publications where it lists all they have done - quite a few.

thanks and take care, Kitty

[PRC]

http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mnfhs/index.php?page=publications-list

:-)

[Kitty55]

Hi PRC

Yep, just been able to do it myself must have been this foul connection of mine - but I'm not moving out of the fields where I am I love it here - so peaceful - so I'll put up with the pathetic internet connection and work late at night to connect if I have to.

thanks and take care, Kitty.

[RoninReepham]

The advantage of working nights has been when not able to sleep on nights off i've done most of my research on line

[barkalotloudly]

I have managed to purchase several reports for the Red Cross society in Norwich 1917-1919 which according to the blurb contain a lot of little bits of information, wounded, deaths etc

I look forward to receiving these!!

regards John

[Kitty55]

Hi John

They sound like they'll be fascinating - it's the kind of thing that interests me too.

I've got a few mementoes which local people have given me concerning the Military (VAD) Hospital in Dereham - i.e. memories, badges, awards and photos.

I was also lucky enough to write to Canon Macnaughton Jones' son before he died and he wrote a very long letter (almost a booklet) to me about growing up in town whilst his mother was running the hospital - he had to go there with her and was the nurses little helper as he put it.

thanks and take care, Kitty

[RoninReepham]

We are also working with the Bircham Centre in Reepham and the Reepham Society for a joint display and events The Bircham Centre and Town Hall where the Staff Quarters and Ward for the Red Cross Hospital in Reepham

[beestonboxer]

Although not on this forum there is a chap from Great Ryburgh called Peter Trent who has done a brilliant job researching men from the village believe he has also played a major part in the village receiving a grant to have restoration work done to memorial panels ect in the church. I am sure a google search would soon pop up with a contact address. I see Kitty has contacted you the work she has done on Dereham men is second to none and having met her on Sunday can also say what a nice lady with an unbelievable passion for the subject.

[Kitty55]

Ah - thank you for saying that, Tim.

I had to leave early as I wasn't feeling too well and so thought people might not have been very happy with me. Slowly recovering now.

I've spent the last four to five years working on Dereham during the Great War - i.e. the show you saw on Sunday, various talks, displays and other shows etc.

I've one last item to cover next year and that is tracing those soldiers that came back - might take my all year too.

Then I'll start writing a book on Dereham during the Great War which is different in style to Terry Davy's diary of it and will contain a lot more detail in it. (His was written in the late 1980's so there's so much more information available now).

The Cenotaph Heroes work (i.e. the book) was not just me - Patricia Skittrall and Margaret Bonn should have most of the credit for that as I just did some of the pictorial research, corrections and layout for them and then checked that I didn't have anything else from other contacts (I actually had several to add). So it was team work - always the best in my opinion.

thanks and take care, Kitty

[PRC]

Roughton added to my Flickr account.

To the Glory of God
And in Honoured Memory of those
who fell in the Great War 1914 – 1918.

Leonard Bower
John H Bullen
James Cossey
Richard Hewitt
John T Hoolhouse
Sidney E Keeler
Stanley Lambert
Thomas Lambert
Charles Lawrence
George Lawrence
John H Reynolds
Alfred Wm Turner
Cecil Turner
Herbert J C Wade
Archie Ward
Charles E Ward
Robert J Ward
Ernest Ward
Cecil Wright

Greater love hath no man than this

https://www.flickr.com/photos/43688219@N00/14492532003/

I'm sure everyone here has copies of the War diaries for the 1st, 7th and 8th Norfolks, but if not I'm willing to do look ups

[Kitty55]

Hi PRC

Thanks I might take you up on that offer when I've finished doing all the things I've got to finish for other projects this year.

Unlike many others I don't have them but I do have 100 years (1880 - 1980) of reports, articles & photos from the Dereham and Fakenham Times that I've photographed, with Archant's permission I hasten to add.

thanks and take care, Kitty

Edited 28 June , 2014 by Kitty55

[barkalotloudly]

A couple of nice purchases. An original copy of "The roll of honour for Norfolk" Norwich news company 1920

Roll of honour for Fakenham

[PRC]

Guist War Memorial in the churchyard at St Andrew, Guist, now added to my Flickr account.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/43688219@N00/14643904242/in/photostream/

To the Glory of God

And in Grateful

Remembrance of

The men of this Parish

Who gave their lives

For us in the

Great War

1914 – 1919

They were a wall unto us

Both by night and day

George Baldwin

Ezra E Eggleton

Charles Farrow

James Nobbs

Frederick Nobes

Percy Nobes

Harold Palmer

William Palmer

Fuller Pilch

George D Platten

Frederick Smith

Charles Tipple

George D Platten is possibly George Douglas Ansell, a 7th Battalion man, also on some records as George Duglas Hansell, who was born Guist and who on the 1911 census was living a Stibbard, Guist, (Ansell) and on the 1901 census was living with his grandparents in Guist itself, (Hansell). There are no Plattens associated with Guist that I could find - there is a George Daniel Platten who died in 1914, a pre-war regular with the East Yorkshire Regiment who originally came from Norwich who is the most likely match otherwise.

[norfolknun]

Very late on parade I am afraid.

Starting to research two men who lived in my village, both of whom I knew in their later lives.

Bertie Money, who lived in Matlaske until his death

Sam Dyke, who moved from Matlaske to live near Aldborough.

The research has literally only just begun, so am finding census records and World War records for both.

Bertie, I know, was also the Sergeant of the Matlaske Home Guard section during WW11 (he was the only one with military experience)

Sam was severley wounded in the face whislt acting as a feeder to a machine gunner (I believe the gunner was awarded the MM whilst Sam got nothing) and spent some time recuperating at a place called Weddington Hall, in Nuneaton.

I am on it !!

Jeremy

[norfolknun]

With the publication of, in my opinion, an excellent magazine with the EDP on 2nd August, I am now aware that my village lost three good men and true.

As far as I know, no person has ever researched them....so, a quest for myself.

[PRC]

Jeremy,

Sent you a mail via Flickr - good luck with your research.

Matlaske apparently sacrificed 6 men according to a plaque in the church.

http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Norfolk/Matlaske.html

regards,

Peter

[norfolknun]

Thank you PRC

[Kitty55]

Hi

It's brilliant to see so many people researching Norfolk Heroes.

thanks and take care, Kitty