auchonvillerssomme Posted 28 April , 2013 Share Posted 28 April , 2013 I have a brass ships bell marked 'SK Goben 1916' it has a phoenix mark on the other side. an internet search shows that there are several examples about,so my question is, why were reproductions made of this specific bell with this date? It is a very good reproduction, I am presuming it is a reproduction, it was bought as a ordinary 'handbell' and priced accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 28 April , 2013 Share Posted 28 April , 2013 I have a brass ships bell marked 'SK Goben 1916' it has a phoenix mark on the other side. I can find examples of this ship's bell having been sold in different places, including France, with sales dating back to 2007. If have also seen this bell both in brass, and in black base metal. Presumably, someone had a mould of the original bell, made copies which sold, and then continued to make more copies. The only ship with a similar name I can find, was the German Battlecruiser ' Goeben ', which was transferred to Turkey in 1914. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 28 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 28 April , 2013 if it is the Goeben, which the web suggest it is, I wonder why the date 1916, I have found info going back to 2002, I wonder if they were made to commemorate her decommissioning or scrapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted 28 April , 2013 Share Posted 28 April , 2013 I hadn't even realised that you are a tintinabulist! Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 28 April , 2013 Share Posted 28 April , 2013 if it is the Goeben, which the web suggest it is, I wonder why the date 1916, I have found info going back to 2002, I wonder if they were made to commemorate her decommissioning or scrapping. The ' Goeben ' was decomissioned in 1950, and scrapped in 1973. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 28 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 28 April , 2013 Bruce, I have avoided using the most obvious bell joke, so please don't tempt me! That seems a long time between decommissioning and scrapping, would that be usual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest exuser1 Posted 28 April , 2013 Share Posted 28 April , 2013 I believe there may have been some kind of effort to save the ship back in the 1970s but the Turkish Navy/ government went ahead and sold her for scrap ,what a tourist attraction she would make today , have seen lots of photographs of her up to that period as I believe she was anchored off Istanbul ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 28 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 28 April , 2013 This might be an obvious question but how does SK Goben become SMS Goeben? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 28 April , 2013 Share Posted 28 April , 2013 'S.K.' might stand for 'Schlachtkreuzer' - the literal German for 'Battlecruiser', though I don't know if they used that nomenclature. But Goeben - and I think it was spelt that way in German, with an 'e' instead of an umlaut - was already officially renamed Yavuz Selim in the Turkish Navy in mid August 1914, so any attribution of this bell to that ship is not really supportable. Considering the number of 'repro' telescopes and other brass instruments of varying quality - some bearing engraving as 'Carl Zeiss', and soldered-on swastikas and U-boat badges etc. - that come from the brass foundries of the Indian subcontinent, the origin of this piece is quite likely to be as recent as it is spurious. Sorry. Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 28 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 28 April , 2013 Mik, I bought it assuming it was a reproduction for 30 quid, so no loss or broken hearts. But I am intrigued about why, why that ship and why that date and why the phoenix? The only link to the Goeben is the mention on the web. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 28 April , 2013 Share Posted 28 April , 2013 Mik, I bought it assuming it was a reproduction for 30 quid, so no loss or broken hearts. But I am intrigued about why, why that ship and why that date and why the phoenix? The only link to the Goeben is the mention on the web. Mick In many cases the fakirs simply don't appear to know enough history to get it right, and just add stuff to the base product to start the punter speculating that he's found a real gem. Just as with telescopes they may pick a famous maker, spell or punctuate them wrong, invent a crest of some sort and then add a date that makes no sense on investigation, so presumably with other items. This one may have been originally aimed at the market around the Black Sea, where the Goeben's name is better-known than here - perhaps it was bought by a British tourist in Turkey and brought home? Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 29 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 29 April , 2013 I know, and we have all seen the ridiculous fakes, they are a bit of a hobby, but these people were ok with using an umlaut rather than a pretty ordinary 'e'. If a tourist picked it up I hope they weren't flying on a budget airline, it weighs nearly 4 pounds! But anyway my thoughts after a bit of digging yesterday evening are that they come from the same stable as the pub bells with spurious dates. So next question is how am I going to put it up over the front door? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 29 April , 2013 Share Posted 29 April , 2013 The bell of the light cruiser SMS Frauenlob, which was sunk at Jutland, has been recovered and is on display at Laboe Naval Memorial. It’s of much higher quality: http://upload.wikime...hiffsglocke.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeCeeCee Posted 29 April , 2013 Share Posted 29 April , 2013 I know, and we have all seen the ridiculous fakes, they are a bit of a hobby, but these people were ok with using an umlaut rather than a pretty ordinary 'e'. If a tourist picked it up I hope they weren't flying on a budget airline, it weighs nearly 4 pounds! But anyway my thoughts after a bit of digging yesterday evening are that they come from the same stable as the pub bells with spurious dates. So next question is how am I going to put it up over the front door? I'm thinking keep it simple: does the wife have a strong right arm? Anything beyond that requires a drill and a trip to B&Q >>>shudder<<< Edit: a more serious answer. Goeben 1916 and a Pheonix? Is it a Turkish momento sold to a Turkish Nationalist? The pheonix has always carried a message of something destroyed who will rise again. Could even be for Germans or German tourists. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob H Posted 7 May , 2013 Share Posted 7 May , 2013 The bell from SMS Goeben is in the Istanbul Naval Museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 10 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 10 May , 2013 What is the date on the top? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob H Posted 13 May , 2013 Share Posted 13 May , 2013 Cast round the top edge of the bell is: B.V.G.BOCHUM 1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 13 May , 2013 Share Posted 13 May , 2013 That looks like the bell maker's name [Bochumer Verein für Bergbau und Gußstahlfabrikation (BVG)] the name of the town where it was made and the year it was made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 13 May , 2013 Share Posted 13 May , 2013 That looks like the bell maker's name [Bochumer Verein für Bergbau und Gußstahlfabrikation (BVG)] the name of the town where it was made and the year it was made Is it a cast steel (Gußstahl) bell, then? Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CaptainBoo Posted 16 March , 2016 Share Posted 16 March , 2016 Hi, I know this is an old post but I happened to search for SK Goben because I have the same bell ... so yep, most probably reproduction. Mine also has 1916 and the phoenix ... same as yours but mine's not shiny . I got mine in South Australia from an antique shop around 12 to 15 years ago. I thought it might be repro at the time but liked it anyway and it has a great sound. Not sure if you ever got to hang yours over the front door but if you did, it's probably been nicked by now. Anyway, thought you might like to know that someone else has one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 16 March , 2016 Share Posted 16 March , 2016 I believe there may have been some kind of effort to save the ship back in the 1970s but the Turkish Navy/ government went ahead and sold her for scrap ,what a tourist attraction she would make today , have seen lots of photographs of her up to that period as I believe she was anchored off Istanbul ? I agree it would have been great had the ship been saved as a tourist attraction, but the Government would have to balance that against the ongoing preservation costs. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest João Guerreiro Posted 21 September , 2016 Share Posted 21 September , 2016 I have exlatly the same bell SK-GOBEN 1916...Was nice surprise to me. It's mean is from a german battleship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 21 September , 2016 Share Posted 21 September , 2016 (edited) Alas No: the real bell from the ex-German battleship is now in a museum in Turkey - see post No. 15 above (please also note the difference in the spelling Göben/Goeben – the latter is the spelling of the name of the German warship) As far as I know, it has yet to be determined what all these other (Göben) bells represent "Yavuz glorious farewell" with acknowledgements to 'Auf den Spuren der Goeben' by Matti E. Mäkelä (Bernard & Graefe Verlag München, 1979) Edited 21 September , 2016 by michaeldr cr@p software Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 22 September , 2016 Share Posted 22 September , 2016 (edited) Ignoring the spelling (SK instead of SMS & Göben instead of Goeben) I cannot find anything which would tie in with either the year 1916 or the phoenix Only two incidents in 1916 seem to be worth mentioning in resources I have seen:- On 8th January the Goeben/Yuvaz was escorting the collier Carmen along the southern (Turkish) coast of the Black Sea when she came within range of the new Russian dreadnought the Imperatriza Maria. The Russian gunners put up a very impressive demonstration and the out-ranged Yuvaz quickly headed for the Bosphorus. The Russians got 25 knots out of their new ship and Captain Ackerman reported to Souchon, 'The Imperatriza Maria can run and shoot!' [The Russian gunners did not hit the Goeben, but they got within 50 yards of her. The Goeben replied with her smaller 11-inch (the Russian ship had 12-inch) but could not make the range] The single collier which was being escorted was lost in the dash for home and taken by the Russian's destroyer escort On 4th July the ship bombarded the Russian town of Taupse on the Black Sea's north-eastern shore. Edited 22 September , 2016 by michaeldr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest João Guerreiro Posted 23 September , 2016 Share Posted 23 September , 2016 Many thanks about the 1916 bell...Well i see the same bell sold in ebay for 75 eurosand they mencioned Antique vintage bronze coulé navires bell s k GOBEN 1916 nautique maritime marine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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