Civilian Occupation "Dogger"

[roughdiamond]

Hi Folks

Found this as an occupation for a WW1 soldier, had a look on Google and it takes me to Aussie sites that describe it as "Someone who slings loads on cranes in the construction and mining industry", would that be the same in WW1 era Scotland?

Cheers

Sam

[nigelfe]

Making 'dogs, timber' (to use the military name) or using them for timber construction?

[sw63]

Apart from the ooh-er missus...

In all seriousness it might have something to do with wood cutting. A dog saw might have been a name for a very large, two man saw. It was used to cut tree trunks over a pit with one man on top and the other in the pit, hence "Top Dog" and "Under Dog".

Another possibility might be a dog warden or dog killer employed by the parish to round-up and destroy stray dogs.

Simon

[David B]

If I remember rightly a dogger was a person who rode cranes and made sure the load was correctly balanced as it was swung outwards and upwards. Not my choice of occupations.

[PhilB]

A dogger was also a type of boat used in the North Sea in cod and herring fisheries.

[Scalyback]

A dogger was also a type of boat used in the North Sea in cod and herring fisheries.

Hence dogger bank? Genuine question.

[centurion]

Hence dogger bank? Genuine question.

I think there's a connection. Genuine answer although I've a feeling that the boat takes it's name from the bank rather than the bank from the boat.

[roughdiamond]

A dogger was also a type of boat used in the North Sea in cod and herring fisheries.

Unlikely in this case Phil, he was from Bellshill, slap bang in the centre of the industrial belt of central Scotland.

Thanks everyone for your input, as Bellshill was surrounded by coal mines and the Iron and steel industry, I'm inclined towards the Aussie explanation with it's mining connection.

Sam

[centurion]

In North America before WW1 a dogger was a man who worked in a sawmill. The papers from Maine to Oregon were full of accounts of accidents to them

"Horner was employed as a. "dogger" on the carriage of the sawmill there, his duty being to set the sharp prong that holds the log In place."

"Hugh Rossell alleging that his hand had been badly cut and injured by a saw while he was employed at the Ford Johnson Company mills on the South Side filed suit against the company for 2000 He claims that he was employed as a dogger and the saw which injured him was con cealed so that ho could not see it"

As a "Wobbly" (IWWW) activist explains, the pace in the saw mills was ferocious

"The fastest cutting mill Ive ever seen was the mill of the J.J. White Lumber Company at Columbia, Mississippi. It was only an average speed rig but had more power than usual on the circular saw and could cut faster as a result, I might also mention here the mill of the Williams Yellow Pine Company, Wilco, Mississippi; Long Bell Lumber Company, Woodworth, Louisiana; and the Turner Pine Company, Uniform Alabama. All of these were fast rigs, but not in the class of the Cannon Ball.

Just in case someone may ask, "How do you know about these fast rigs?" I was employed as a dogger on them, as well as on many more, with the exception of the J.J. White mill at Columbia, Mississippi. Someone may also want to know WHY I went to the trouble to work on them. Thats a GOOD question, but I guess the answer was that I really wanted to know just WHICH one was the fastest and the only way to know was to work on them. It took several years starting in 1914 and working in seven states, plus a province in Canada to find out.

After working on all these rigs I came to the conclusion that the Cannon Ball was really the fastest rig ever built. The "Ball" had a special boiler in order to have hot, dry steam and was a light pole rig with a 12 inch rebored "gun" hand set works, and boss dogs. This rig got the pick of long, straight Norway pine for dimension. That is two weeks of my life I will never forget! Seattle cedar clocked their rig at 13,500 feet per minute. According to this the old Cannon Ball must have made 15,000 feet per minute, and they gain this speed from a dead stop and do it within one foot. Now try standing up on this and hand dogging the logs on the carriage!

Another reason for my extensive ravels was to find that Bunyanesque rig that was "So fast the dogger was tied on" There is simply no such animal, but I DID see several I wouldn't mind being tied OFF of. However the myth still persists.

At the time I was dogging on the "Ball" at International Falls Minnesota. I used to cross the river to Fort Frances, Ontario Canada where my older brother was a sawyer and would be a "guest dogger" for an hour or so. That rig would cant for a gang saw and put out 2,500 logs in a ten hour shift."

[Sandie Hayes]

In Joyce Culling's 'A Preliminary List of Occupations, a 'Dogger' was a worker in the processing of metal.

So he probably worked in Bellshill's iron or steel industry.

Another possibility might be a dog warden or dog killer employed by the parish to round-up and destroy stray dogs.

Simon, from the same book, 'Dog Killer' - a person employed by the parish to kill any dogs found running loose in hot weather.

[david todd]

hi all,a person who slings things so the crane can lift it is called a rigger in scotland,i have worked with lots of them,regards david.

[kenf48]

'Chain Dogs' are metal hooks often used to control gravity driven vehicles e.g. roller coasters; In older roller coasters the cars are connected to a chain for the first climb, these dogs attach the cars to the chain and pull the cars up the first incline, when it reaches the top the car is released as the dogs disconnect and gravity takes over. (The failure of the dogs and braking system was one of tthe main causes of the Battersea Park Big Dipper fatal incident).

Gravity railways were used in the coal mines (one of my relatives in South Wales aged 13 was described in 1911 as an 'underground loco driver') and it's possible the term derives from these metal dogs which was a common engineering term.

As you are talking about coal mining thIs online mining glossary http://www.healeyher...tm#D describes a 'dogger' as 'generally a young boy who coupled tubs together with link chain and hooks'. (dogs?) although it seems it was more common usage in Yorkshire there is no reason why it could not have been used in Scotland (or even Australia!).

Ken

[centurion]

The gist of the matter is that "dogger" was a term used in so many industries (and no one's yet mentioned that some Australian states employed doggers to exterminate dingos) so that as Scotland had metal works, cranes, mines, saw mills and even fishing boats (but no dingos) he could have worked in many places.

[kenf48]

Before considering dingo hunting, have you looked at the 1911 Census? Most young men followed their fathers into the 'family business', or to put it another way there were limited employment opportunities especially in coal and steel towns such as Bellshill, it might give an indication as to the industry.

Ken