Did religion play an important role in the Gallipoli Campaign?

[akifemre]

In Turkey, commemorations of the Gallipoli Campaign have usually had a strong

religious emphasis, though some political groups oppose this. Mustafa Kemal

Atatürk, the founder of modern Turkey, who was known for his secular

character, had spoken of the "Çanakkale Spirit", giving examples of

Turkish soldiers reading verses from the Quran (The Sacred book of Islam) or

praying to God while fighting their enemies.

Large groups of Turkish visitors perform Islamic rituals when they come to the

Gallipoli Peninsula. Most of them see the Gallipoli Campaign as a holy war,

and on the Allied side the campaign was referred to as a crusade by the

British journalist Ashmead Bartlett among others.

I have not come across any reference to religion from Churchill, Kitchener or

any of the other leading Allied figures who played a part in initiating the

campaign. I was wondering if religion was a factor in the Allied side

initiating and conducting the Gallipoli Campaign. Did ordinary British or

Anzac soldiers consider that they were on the crusade?

I would appreciate your thoughts on this

Best regards.

Tuncay Yilmazer

[WhiteStarLine]

Hi Tuncay,

When the bank transferred my grandfather from North Queensland to Melbourne, Australia, there was a farewell dinner for him. The Cairns Post of 15 September 1915 recorded what was said:

Mr M. J. Mackey's speech on the war was the subject of much favourable comment.

He quoted several of the world's leading war experts on the situation at the western

and eastern fronts. Referring to the Dardanelles campaign, he contended that it was

literally a struggle between the Crescent and the Cross : he maintained that Britain's

prestige in the Mahometan Eastern countries was at stake, and that at any cost the

Allies must smash their way through to Constantinople. He said that wherever the

sun shone on the minarets of a Moslem mosque, there would the followers of Islam

be discussing the struggle, and that for Britain to lose or withdraw from the

campaign would be fatal to her prestige in the East : therefore at all costs the Turk

must be smashed as quickly as possible.

[akifemre]

Hi WhiteStarLine,

Thank you very much for your sharing.

According to your grandfather's record , can we say that (perhaps) Gallipoli Campaign was started with non-religious views but later it transformed into crescent-cross struggle for Allied side?

Best regards.

Tuncay Yilmazer

www.geliboluyuanlamak.com ( Understanding Gallipoli )

[WhiteStarLine]

Hi Tuncay, really nice to see so much more of the Turkish viewpoint these days. I attended a recent lecture in Canberra by a visiting professor from Istanbul and I was so impressed. After reading a lot of 1914 and 1915 newspapers online, my personal belief is that the men of North Queensland were really motivated by the threat to the sale of large quantities of their butter and frozen meat to Britain, posed by raiders from the German navy. This is why several thousand North Queenslanders signed up with the Army within days of WW1 being declared and set off to capture German New Guinea. I don't want to stray into any religious discussion, but I suspect others manipulated this aspect and most Australians were more interested in protecting the trade with Britain or genuinely wanted to help Britain as so much of the WW1 Australian forces were British-born. Cheers, Bill

[sketcher]

I can only put my two-pennyworth into this question according to my own experience of being on active service in Malaya in the 1950s. We National Service bods went there largely having put C of E in our AB 64s with regard to religion, and never again thought about religious matters. Wars are fought by fit young lads who's only thoughts are about women, beer and being **** scared when at the sharp end. In Malaya our enemy was the C.T.s which we soon learnt meant Communist Terrorists. Some of us perhaps thought that we had something in common with them...due to the word "Communist"...but those of us who had to deal with Chinese Communism soon saw that "The end justifying the means", meant advertising that by knocking 6 inch nails into the heads of unwilling village head-men rather than just shooting them. My readings of Marx and Engels soon dimmed to nothing in my mind, and religion as a whole presented itself as questionable as time and experience gathered in my young mind. In old age I have to consider another aspect of having helped to save an infant nation now known as Malaysia due to its religion being Muslim. I honestly did not know that fact aged 19, 20 and 21....not until in 2007 when I was awarded a medal called the Pingat Jasa Malaysia. I ask yer....imagine wearing that at the end of the row come Armistice Sunday these days. In my opinion religion - even including Communism - has nothing to do with the real reason why wars are fought....ask any refugee....and they will tell you wars are fought for the desires of the greedy...and regardless of the flag they fly.

[phil andrade]

One aspect of this question is of speculative interest ; but it merits some reflection.

My belief is that the capture of Constantinople from the Ottomans was bound to be a huge boost to Russian morale - even if it was a deed accomplished by the British and French empires.

Imagine the impact on the resolve of Russian people. The fatal deterioration of morale that undermined the Tsar's rule is going to be reversed if the war can be seen to be a " holy" one and a victorious one at that. The Orthodox Church triumphantly restored, Byzantium returned....the repurcussions are enormous. Religion is of great importance in Russian culture, as Stalin was to demonstrate when he exploited its potential in 1941.

In this respect, is it plausible to suggert that the potential of the Dardanelles expedition went beyond the efficacy of material factors ?

Phil (PJA)

[geraint]

Sketcher - What do you mean with knocking 6 inch nails? My dad was in Malaya - he never told me anything about nailing headmen...?

[phil andrade]

In Turkey, commemorations of the Gallipoli Campaign have usually had a strong

religious emphasis,

Large groups of Turkish visitors perform Islamic rituals when they come to the

Gallipoli Peninsula. Most of them see the Gallipoli Campaign as a holy war,

The Turkish soldiers who fought at Gallipoli suffered a death rate that was more than fifty per cent higher than that among their enemy on the peninsula. I believe that the Turks sustained an even higher per capita death rate there than the French did at Verdun in 1916.

To have fought so hard and suffered so much required something special in the way of committment. No doubt, many among the Ottoman forces saw it as a war against the invader, in so far as they were defending home soil. But many of them were not Turks proper, but arab levies, and I daresay that for them the religious aspect was very important.

Phil (PJA)

[michaeldr]

Tuncay,

I have seen no evidence that Religion played any part whatsoever in the policy decision of the British to go to war with Turkey.

The reluctance to use Indian Empire Mohammedan troops there was based on practical considerations of discipline, rather than anything else. Likewise the initial wavering of Kitchener and Birdwood over the withdrawal, had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with 'loss of face.' It was purely political in the context of maintaining the British Empire's govern-ability.

I have taken part in remembrance services on Gallipoli which had Christian elements to them, and I can quite understand that Turks will also have a religious element to their remembrance, but that has nothing to do with how or why the campaign was fought in 1914-16.

Certain authors may have used the idea of the medieval crusades in their writing about the campaign, but this must be seen as an illustrative way of communicating with a public which, at the beginning of the twentieth century, was much more religious than today. In that same way then, and coming from a Christian background, it may well be true that some of the ordinary soldiers thought of themselves as being on a crusade.

Looking at this topic from the other side so to speak. There is no evidence that either Egypt, Arabia or anywhere else for that matter, heeded the call for Jihad, and most writers seem to think that the move was German inspired and a complete miss-reading of the situation.

regards

Michael

[Guest exuser1]

A few years back a TV documentary on the Crimean War ,it mainly detailed the action at Balaclava , it relied quite heavily on the testament of British officers and their description of the fighting qualities of the Turkish troops defending the road to Balaclava , in many ways the action was a Russian victory and denied the allies the use of the road to supply the siege lines , all supplies were now man handled up the Col to the trenches ,the Turkish troops performance was used as a scapegoat by the British and the idea was fermented of the poor quality of their troops , the incident of them being chased through the British camp by one of the troopers wife with a broom and Turks heading for the port shouting "Ship Johnny ship "

The argument was that at the time of the Great War the Turkish soldier was seen as a bit of a push over ,based on Britians experience of them as allies in the Crimea , in fact the Turks had put up a spirited defence of the forts and held out against overwhelming odds for a couple of hours .

[phil andrade]

The argument was that at the time of the Great War the Turkish soldier was seen as a bit of a push over ,based on Britians experience of them as allies in the Crimea , in fact the Turks had put up a spirited defence of the forts and held out against overwhelming odds for a couple of hours .

The Seige of Plevna in the 1870s had demonstrated the skill and valour of the Turks in defence, and widespread British admiration was won by it.

In his novel Birds Without Wings, Louis de Bernieres devotes a chapter or two to Gallipoli through Turkish eyes. it's significant that he alludes to the Allied enemies as Franks ; as to whether this is a purely racial depiction, or inspired by ancient religious enmities to the foe of the Crusades, or both, is moot.

Phil (PJA)

[T8HANTS]

Whilst shipping over on the Aqitania my old friend told me they were given a pep talk by a senior officer that did include phrases about " Crusaders going to fight the Turks", but his reply to that was "They didn't tell us that the bl**dy Turks would shoot back". However fighting across the Holy Land did make him very religious, and he was convinced that Allenby's Army had fought the Battle of Armageddon, and because of this he had a lifelong interest in Biblical prophesy. Which was quite a change as before the war his nickname was"N'other pint".

[Guest exuser1]

The Seige of Plevna in the 1870s had demonstrated the skill and valour of the Turks in defence, and widespread British admiration was won by it.

In his novel Birds Without Wings, Louis de Bernieres devotes a chapter or two to Gallipoli through Turkish eyes. it's significant that he alludes to the Allied enemies as Franks ; as to whether this is a purely racial depiction, or inspired by ancient religious enmities to the foe of the Crusades, or both, is moot.

Phil (PJA)

It has always struck me as strange the relationship that we seem to have with the Ottoman Turks , with the War in the East both ridicule , outright condemnation of their fighting prowess and as to should we be helping the Russians rather than the poor old Turk , then post Crimea the comments made over the Siege of Plevna , but one theme that does run is that of the cruel Turk and the image that runs back to the Fall of Constantinople and the Ottoman Invasions of Europe which does always seem to fall back to the both religious aspect and Johnny foreigner attitude .

[phil andrade]

This campaign has a unique blend of associations : the religious aspect we're discussing ; the racial caricatures ; and the associations with antiquity....this was on the site of Troy, where Leander swam the straits. It really does grip the imagination, even today : yet how much more so in the traditions of early twentieth century education and perception. Many British officers were classical scholars, and a famous German archaelogist had, I believe, made a name for himself by excavating Trojan dwellings in that area of the world.

I tend to think of it as a surreal episode in modern military history, but I'm a soppy romantic !

Phil (PJA)

[sketcher]

Phil (PJA) Being a soppy romantic is no bad thing. At least one can accept the scepticism of those who condemn the realities of life as one has known it. The Aegean was the cradle of life as we know it with regard to literature and thinking outside the box. It has always been torn by war, as K Ataturk knew, but he too was a man with a soppy slice of romance in his soul.

[phil andrade]

Any anecdotes from chaplains who served at Gallipoli ? Or padres, or mullahs ? There must be something to bring to the table here.

Phil (PJA)

[sketcher]

Phil. I doubt that there will be few if any Padres who knew what the Mehmets worshipped in 1915. Keeping track of what the Irish, English, Welsh and in particular the Scots bent the knee to would have been enough to cope with back then. Back on the track of our soppy study of the ancients however, I have just researched one of the alumni of the school I taught at for 25+ years - one of the last of some 4 score to die in WW1, and would have had a knowledge of Latin and ancient history. This Old Boy, a 2nd Lt in the 104th Wellesley Rifles, 6th Poonah Div fitted into a slot in November 1915 as falling in a battle against the Turks outside the walls of an ancient city called Ctesiphon in what was known as Messopotamia. The 3 days of the 1915 battle cost the 6th Poonah Div 4,600 men, again soaking the ground with blood where in AD 363 the Romans under Emperor Julian crushed the Sassinid King Shapur the 2nd. Both my boy and Emperor Julian died before they knew the outcome of their particular battle....and I wonder if either of 'em gave a damn about the private beliefs of the other....or could think about any particular God in their death throes. I stray, however from where ones God is supposed to be most needed......the moment before the battle starts....the going over the top.....his name shouted like an halloo to kill.

[stevenbecker]

Mates,

It always concerns me when people use "God" or religon in war to justify there reason for fighting that war.

No dought young Turkish soldiers shorted "Allah" when charging the Anzac defences, but weather they were using it as protection against a bullet or in the simple beleive that their soles would be mayrtered to paridice is unknown, without talking to an ex Turksih soldier.

Allied or aussie soldiers never shouted the same call to god while charging Turkish trenches, but no dought, they mentioned his name to help them while doing the same thing as the young Turkish soldier.

He never used religon as such a crutch and only thought about religon most Sundays if at all.

Shooting down Johnnies had notting to do with religion and only to save ones life, and god may came into it later, but never the first thought.

Of cause the chaplains or mulahs used what they knew to instill some religious effort, but most soldiers disgrguard such coments, but what Turkish soldier thought is unknown, but possibly used what ever to get them throw the terrible situation they found them selves in, much as we did.

I find it hard to believe that young Turkish soldiers shot us down because we were christians, but believed we were invading their land and they wanted to protect there families and homes.

S.B

[phil andrade]

This Old Boy, a 2nd Lt in the 104th Wellesley Rifles, 6th Poonah Div fitted into a slot in November 1915 as falling in a battle against the Turks outside the walls of an ancient city called Ctesiphon in what was known as Messopotamia.

Lovely story, thanks.

Perhaps this young fellow, in his erudtion and refinement, recoiled from the rather inelegant nickname " Pissed upon" that the tommies gave to this place.

Phil (PJA)

[phil andrade]

It always concerns me when people use "God" or religon in war to justify there reason for fighting that war.

Yes.

There were definitely repurcussions, though - real or imagined.

There had, I believe, been a call to jihad. The recovery of Constantinople was of enormous significance in religious terms, and the diplomatic and military consequences were bound to be immense, given the fragile and volatile stance of Greek and Balkan people. Bulgaria and Romania were waiting in the wings....they were seeking land and power, but how convenient to attach a religious cause to their ambitions !

It intrigues me to learn that British soldiers and statesmen were worried about the impact of the Dardanelles fighting on the Muslim subjects of the Empire. Loss of prestige through defeat and evacuation posed one problem ; a victorious outcome might also be difficult.

Phil (PJA)