Duke of Cornwalls Light Infantry 8th battalion

[Mariapreston]

Hello all

Charles Tonks also called Charles Short was my Great Uncle and I have just discovered his war records online for the first time.

Have a record for a C Short (Rank unknown)Duke of Cornwall Light Infantry (8th Battalion)incident date 07/06/1917 Went missing in the Balkans. Service No 16318.

We have it passed down that he was captured and sent to the salt mines where he died a prisoner of war. Can anyone help me to find out if this fits or tell me anything more about his battalion or where he may have fought. The family and I knew nothing about Charles we just found a photo in a draw and started to research. Such a shame that he gave his life for us and was forgotten. I would love to find out his story and pass it on for my desendents. Please can anyone help any info would be wonderfull.

Thanks Maria

[apwright]

From The History of the Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry by E.Wyrall:

On the night of the 7th/8th [June 1917] the wily Bulgar laid a trap for the DCLI patrols. Lieut. Nicolle took out a party to Petit Piton and on Grand Piton found an enemy telephone wire lying innocently on the ground. On pulling the wire an explosion took place and the advanced party of the patrol were immediately attacked from both flanks and rear by strong hostile parties. Close fighting took place and Lieut. Nicolle got through, but four men were afterwards found to be missing. A party, consisting of Sergt. Clarke and three other ranks, which was covering a wiring party of C Company, saw the enemy and opened fire with Lewis guns and dispersed him.

Grand & Petit Piton are the small hills north and south of the present road running east from Evzoni (then called Macukovo), about a kilometre after it passes under the motorway.

Google Earth/Maps coords of Grand Piton: 41.107 22.579

Your account suggests he was one of the four missing, and you say he died a PoW ... but

1) I can't find him on cwgc.org.

2) He's not listed in the Roll in the above book.

3) His Medal Card is marked C.Z, meaning he returned home and was discharged to Class Z Army Reserve at the end of the war.

In other words, everything says he didn't die. Where did you get the record from? I can't find anything like it on Ancestry.

Adrian

[Mariapreston]

Hi Adrian

A researcher fould it for me on Forces War Records this afternoon. I had not found anything previousley as I was looking for Tonks. I checked it out and it is on their database.However I don't know if it helps any but he was I think a telegraph engineer or something similar before the war. I fould him on a census I think the 1911. As soon as I started showing the photo around the older members of the family remembered being told it was Charlie Tonks and he was captured and sent to the salt mines. There is no record of him on the voters rolls after the war and the Absetee roll shows him as DCLI. My Nan his sister married a man whos brother died durring the war and he was also in the DCLI we did wonder if they knew each other and if this is how they met, however I was told this man (Walter) died at the battle of High wood. We had him confused at first with this Walter Holtom as he wears the same uniform but it is definiteley Charles.

[Mariapreston]

Hello again Adrian, Sorry to bother you again but please could you tell me what being discharged to Class Z Army Reserve ment. Sorry to be so clueless but I know very little about service records. I have got a copy of the book you mentioned to look for the entry but what is the roll that you mentioned. Is Cwgc somthing to do with war graves. I haven't found his medal card yet but am joining Ancestry in order to take a look, is it possible that they got it wrong and another C short was discharged and they marked it on the wrong card, would that happen. Other thing I am considering is how would the family know what happened to him Ie salt mines when it isn't in his record. Could he possibley have returned after the war and told them but no one remembers this and I could find no record of him. However was looking for Tonks mainley so will look again. Other possiblity, perhaps he stayed abroad or died on his way back home. This certainly sounds like him and the record seems to match the incident. Wouldn't the Battalion have a record of who went missing and when rather than just four men. Would it be any good my contacting them do you think??? Regards Maria

[kenf48]

Sorry to jump in but you may find it helpful to look at the Long Long Trail [LLT] (link top right) http://www.longlongt...d-your-soldier/ where most of your questions are answered.

His medal index card is entirely consistent with service in the 8th Bn DCLI in that he went to France with the main body on the 22 September 1915, and then on to Salonika. The 'CZ' is a bit cryptic as they usually say 'demobilised to Class Z Reserve' i.e. although they were sent back to civvy street the Armistice and demobilisation did not mark the end of the war and the army retained a hold on them however this was unusual for returning POWs as many were no longer fit for service. For fuller explanation see LLT (As with everything WW1 nothing is set in stone and there are always exceptions and anomalies but the Army is pretty good at paperwork so it's probably on the right card!).

British POWs were sent to the salt (and coal) mines in Germany (and what is now Poland). See this earlier thread where there is a list http://1914-1918.inv...ic=39771

There is a salt mine in Bulgaria and it may be he was sent there but the biggest POW camp for British prisoners was at Phillippopolis, or Plovdiv, there is an account of the conditions there http://www.gutenberg-e.org/steuer/steuer.ch10.html

However like Adrian, I can't find him in any of the indices that suggest he died while a prisoner, usually the missing were identified or declared dead within a few months. The Red Cross kept records of POWs but I don't believe they are currently doing searches (which were very expensive) as they are in the process of digitising their records for the Centenary in 2014.

The National Archives has a resource page on POWs http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/britishpowfirstworldwar.htm

If he died before 31st August 1921 he should be commemorated on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC) data base however not all casualties are listed. There are many reasons for this e.g. he may have died after being repatriated and buried locally, for such cases there is an active In From the Cold Project and when you know more you may wish to approach them to ensure that if he qualifies he is not forgotten http://www.infromthecold.org/index.asp (the founders are members of the forum). As well as not being on the CWGC site there is no record of him in Soldiers Died in the Great War (SDGW) under either name and Find My Past has a database of Armed Forces Deaths but again, nothing.

If you can identify his d.o.b. and residence might help to pin down when he died.

Ken

[Mariapreston]

Hello Ken, thank you so much for all that wonderful information I shall go through the links and read up on it all it is really appreciated. Charles was born in the last quarter of 1887 in Aston Birmingham and the last record I have of him is the Absentee Voters roll which lists him in the DCLI in 1918 along with his brother Harry at Howe street Duddeston Nechells Birmingham. this was his mothers house. I can not find anything else on him as yet after this. Maybee untill the 1921 census is released I will not know if he did actually return home after all. I have contacted the elder members of the family in the hopes that someone may remember hearing something but fear that they will not. It took quite a lot of work to even identify his picture. I have rejoined ancestry and will continue to search in the hopes that he may turn up somewhere. One thing that bothers me is how did the family know that Charles had been captured and taken to the mines when the company records would have just said he was missing. I wonder if they received news from him or if he did indeed return home. Thank you so much for your help I will enjoy looking at all you have sent me Best wishes Maria

[Mariapreston]

Dear ken and Adrian, just to update you on what I have fould so far on Charles. You are correct he did return home, a couple of researchers have found this for me on I belive voters rolls.

• 16318 Charles Short at 8 court 3 Howe Street in 1919
  1922-1930 at 15 court 3 Howe Street with Sarah Short (and with a Kate Keye in 1930. Kate Tonks married Alfred Keye in MARCH 1916)
  A Harry and Sarah Ann Short lived at 8 court 3 Howe Street
  And would this be the same person?
  At 26 Howe St Birmingham in 1911 Charles Short (born 1888 )son of Harry and Sarah, with sisters Rose, Kate and Clara?
  

.Short C Pte Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry

He was mobilized from the Reserve at the outbreak of war and in 1915 landed at Salonika.

There he played a prominent part in the heavy fighting on the Vardar,Dolras and Stromar fronts and in the capture of Monastir,but was taken prisoner.

Released after the Armistice,he returned home and was discharged in February 1919 holding the 1914-1915 Star and the General Service and Victory Medals.

Home address: 3 Court 15 House Howe Street ,Ashted, Birmingham

So looks like the original record found by Adrian in E Wyrals book could well refur to him as the medal card would be correct and he would have be dischardged after the war as it said.

This is all new information for our family and I shall be able to find our more about his experiences in the war for future generations and record it so that he will not be forgotten. I am surprised but delighted that he did survive and maybee he had a family that may like his photograph I will start looking.

Regards Maria

[apwright]

There he played a prominent part in the heavy fighting on the Vardar,Dolras and Stromar fronts and in the capture of Monastir,but was taken prisoner.

For "Dolras and Stromar" read "Doiran and Struma".

Also, it was the French, Serbs, Greeks and Russians that captured Monastir - about 60 miles away from the British sector!

Adrian

[Mariapreston]

Hi Adrian, does that mean that this may not be him.

I don't think the two researchers who found the records for me are as knowledgeable as the members on here with regard to WW1 but they are excellent at finding people and the voters roll records seem correct so at least we know that he was alive in the 1920s so returned home.

Is it possible that he was involed in this fighting or not? When he went missing in June 1917 would the DCLI have been in this area

Regards Maria

[Hallaton1]

The information was taken from the Birmingham Roll of Honour Book

nteractive.ancestry.co.uk/1538/GB0817-00373/174456833?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dFLHUKNationalRoll%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26so%3d3%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dms_db%26gsfn%3dc%26gsln%3dshort%26dbOnly%3d_F00027CD%257c_F00027CD_x%26dbOnly%3d_F00027E9%257c_F00027E9_x%26uidh%3db75&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&rc=65,456,166,485

If anyone is still interested

[Gardenerbill]

The information was taken from the Birmingham Roll of Honour Book

nteractive.ancestry.co.uk/1538/GB0817-00373/174456833?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dFLHUKNationalRoll%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26so%3d3%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dms_db%26gsfn%3dc%26gsln%3dshort%26dbOnly%3d_F00027CD%257c_F00027CD_x%26dbOnly%3d_F00027E9%257c_F00027E9_x%26uidh%3db75&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&rc=65,456,166,485

If anyone is still interested

Hallaton1, Something has gone wrong with your post?