Parcels to France - don't just book it, Thomas Cook it?

[John_Hartley]

Doing a bit of research into food parcels and I've come across an online assertion that the movement of parcels was undertaken by the travel firm of Thomas Cook. The comment says that parcels were unloaded at Dunkirk, taken to a TC depot where they were broken down into Armies. Then taken to TC depots at Army level, where they were broken down into divisional level, where they were taken by TC charabancs.

I can find no other mention of this, nor is this "contracting out" mentioned in the postwar Quartermaster General's report on activites. But, before I decide to ignore the single assertion, I wonder if anyone has any knowledge of this, one way or t'other.

[museumtom]

Parcels for the Troops at Christmas.

The Post Office issues the following :- Christmas mails for British Expeditionary Force in France and Flanders - parcel post.

The War Office notifies that, in military interests, it is necessary to limit the amount of parcel traffic for the troops during the Christmas season. The great bulk of mail traffic already dealt with at normal times is already a very severe tax on the transport service. The amount which the roads will carry is limited, and ammunition, food and stores must naturally have preference over the mails. Any considerable increase in the volume of mail must inevitably lead to serious delay. The public are, therefore, requested, as well as in their own interests as in regard to military exigencies, to limit the use of the parcels post to articles of real utility. Fruit, perishable articles of all descriptions, bottles, pudding basins, and the like, are prohibited, and will not be accepted for transmission. The maximum weight for a single parcel will be reduced to 7 lbs. as from December 1st. All parcels must be strongly and securely packed in covers of canvas, linen, or other strong material. Parcels which do not comply with these requirements are unlikely to reach their destination safely, and, if observed in course of post, will be returned to the sender. The name and address of the sender must be written on the outside, and parcels which do not comply with this condition will be refused. Parcels for the Troops at Christmas.

The Post Office issues the following :- Christmas mails for British Expeditionary Force in France and Flanders - parcel post.

The War Office notifies that, in military interests, it is necessary to limit the amount of parcel traffic for the troops during the Christmas season. The great bulk of mail traffic already dealt with at normal times is already a very severe tax on the transport service. The amount which the roads will carry is limited, and ammunition, food and stores must naturally have preference over the mails. Any considerable increase in the volume of mail must inevitably lead to serious delay. The public are, therefore, requested, as well as in their own interests as in regard to military exigencies, to limit the use of the parcels post to articles of real utility. Fruit, perishable articles of all descriptions, bottles, pudding basins, and the like, are prohibited, and will not be accepted for transmission. The maximum weight for a single parcel will be reduced to 7 lbs. as from December 1st. All parcels must be strongly and securely packed in covers of canvas, linen, or other strong material. Parcels which do not comply with these requirements are unlikely to reach their destination safely, and, if observed in course of post, will be returned to the sender. The name and address of the sender must be written on the outside, and parcels which do not comply with this condition will be refused.

[centurion]

Was this your original source?

http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=vx&list=H-War&month=1301&week=b&msg=bb3AIzwZTirXszLB9k9McQ

[John_Hartley]

Yep, that's the one Centurion. Any thoughts on it? By the by, I've emailed the Thomas Cook archivist asking if he's anything of interest on the subject.

Tom - the ban on fresh produce is interesting - I have letter transcripts indicating that, in mid 1916, one officer received cauliflower and asparagus in one parcel and tomatoes and lettuce in another. What year was your extract referring to?

[museumtom]

That was 1915 John.

Cheers.

Tom.

[centurion]

Various histories of the Army Postal Service "Responsible for army mails in all theatres of war, the APS not only handled mails between Britain and the forces abroad but coordinated communications between units at the front." would tend to contradict the TC account. For example it would seem that parcels were sorted in Britain

"With the onset of trench warfare, all mails bound for troops on the Western Front were sorted at the London Home Depot by the end of 1914. Covering five acres of Regents Park, this was said to be the largest wooden structure in the world employing over 2,500 mostly female staff by 1918. During the war the Home Depot handled a staggering 2 billion letters and 114 million parcels."

"By 1915 the mail volumes had out grown the storage capacity of both Mount Pleasant and King Edward Building and so a large wooden building, reputed to be the largest wooden structure in the world, was erected in Regents Park to accommodate the sorting of parcels, and again women were employed there in sorting and clerical capacities."

[centurion]

There was an interesting quirk over the APS. Men in it drew both military pay as Royal Engineers and civil pay as GPO volunteers. Thus commissioned officers normally drew only pay as a lieutenant regardless of actual rank as they had the extra civil pay but private soldiers were as one might say quids in until 1917 when no more men were enlisted in the APS. Instead men were enlisted in the London Regiment and 'attached' to the APS thus drawing only their military pay.

[tn.drummond]

Instead men were enlisted in the London Regiment and 'attached' to the APS thus drawing only their military pay.

Really ?

Never heard of this, surely not the Post Office Rifles (and no, I'm not joking I''m genuinely shocked). Have you a source please ?

Tim

[centurion]

Really ?

Never heard of this, surely not the Post Office Rifles (and no, I'm not joking I''m genuinely shocked). Have you a source please ?

Tim

From the section on the Army Postal Service in ,"UBIQUE "by Lieutenant Colonel Edward De Santis

"It was decided in 1917 not to enlist any more men into the Postal Service, R.E.S.R., but to post them instead to the London Regiment and attach them to the Postal Service for duty—thus preventing men so enlisted from drawing Engineer pay in the army, in addition to their full civil pay. A Postal Company of the 8th Battalion, London Regiment, was therefore formed, which was merged later into the Home Postal depot."

[tn.drummond]

From the section on the Army Postal Service in ,"UBIQUE "by Lieutenant Colonel Edward De Santis

"It was decided in 1917 not to enlist any more men into the Postal Service, R.E.S.R., but to post them instead to the London Regiment and attach them to the Postal Service for duty—thus preventing men so enlisted from drawing Engineer pay in the army, in addition to their full civil pay. A Postal Company of the 8th Battalion, London Regiment, was therefore formed, which was merged later into the Home Postal depot."

And so it was the Post Office Rifles ! Well I'll be - many thanks for the source.

Tim

[centurion]

Thomas Cook does appear to have had a postal role. People wishing to correspond with anyone living in the Central Powers were requested to send their letters via Thomas Cook. After, one assumes, some form of intelligence review and/or censorship, these were passed to Thomas Cook's office in Geneva and posted on from there. A similar role was carried out through TC's office in Lisbon in WW2.

[SiegeGunner]

Was there still a civilian ferry service across the Channel during the War? Fortnums and Harrods certainly delivered hampers and other supplies that exceeded the Post Office weight limit (and I presume A&N also did), but evidently via their own distribution services. Perhaps Thomas Cook offered a delivery service for 'oversize' packages not emanating from one of the major stores? Harrods certainly had a representative in the Belgian coast sector, because the redoubtable Ladies of Pervyse prevailed on him to procure and deliver a steel door for their dressing station (which I think is now in the IWM .... the door, that is).

[Scalyback]

To get my head around this.

post office rifles a TF unit, start of war marched off as infantry TF many in there, GPO workers. Just have TF pay.

GPO workers not in TF could enlist into RE, be GPO workers and draw pay for being sapper AND Gpo?

In ,1917 this loophole closed down and any GPO worker was then attached to London reg and only drawing pay for a normal soldier. Thus no sapper pay(payed hiqher than infantry) or GPO pay?

[bruce]

There must have been civilian ferries across the Channel, as shown by the events surrounding Capt. Fryatt.

I have no idea if a ferry going to Holland could have also been used to getting parcels into Belgium and France though.

Bruce

[centurion]

To get my head around this.

post office rifles a TF unit, start of war marched off as infantry TF many in there, GPO workers. Just have TF pay.

GPO workers not in TF could enlist into RE, be GPO workers and draw pay for being sapper AND Gpo?

In ,1917 this loophole closed down and any GPO worker was then attached to London reg and only drawing pay for a normal soldier. Thus no sapper pay(payed hiqher than infantry) or GPO pay?

De Santis does a summary which has it nicely

"At the outbreak of war the Postal Services personnel for the Expeditionary Force were supplied from a Postal Section of the Royal Engineers (Special Reserve) composed entirely of G.P.O. staff and employees.

The authorized establishment was 10 officers, 40 warrant officers and sergeants, and 250 rank and file, a total of 300 men. This establishment was intended both to supply the personnel for the B.E.F. and to meet the wastages of a normal campaign.

As the size of the Army increased, and new theatres of war came into being, it was found necessary to form a home Postal Depot, both to act as a draft-finding unit and to handle the mails for all theatres of war. The Headquarters of the depot was at the G.P.O. and the personnel were drawn from amongst P.O. employees enlisted for the duration of the War.

It was decided in 1917 not to enlist any more men into the Postal Service, R.E.S.R., but to post them instead to the London Regiment and attach them to the Postal Service for duty—thus preventing men so enlisted from drawing Engineer pay in the army, in addition to their full civil pay. A Postal Company of the 8th Battalion, London Regiment, was therefore formed, which was merged later into the Home Postal depot. The establishment of the depot was fixed in July of 1918 at 15 Officers, 72 warrant officers and sergeants, 1,113 other ranks, 140 civilians (ex-soldiers), and 1,120 women. The rank and file included a minimum of 250 men belonging to the Postal Company, who supplied drafts to theatres of war. The remaining R.E. personnel included in this total were intended to be gradually replaced by women in the, proportion of three to two, down to a workable minimum, and also sent overseas."

[Scalyback]

Thank you Mr C. Sapper and GPO pay nice little earner that.

[John_Hartley]

I think I can now discount the Thomas Cook suggestion - unless evidence pops up. I've recently got some information from Fortnum & Masons about their wartime hampers. Along with the info was a couple of pages from what appears to be a history of Thomas Cooks regarding its wartime activities. Whilst there's mention of them continuing to run holidays, etc, there's no mention of a parcels service which there surely would be if it had happened (I think)

[centurion]

TC did have an advance luggage service in which you could arrange to have parts of your baggage sent on to designated hotels to await your arrival - useful if on a tour as you could travel light

Apart from this their only postal role appears to be that I mentioned in post 11 forwarding letters into enemy territory. They also ran this service for Spanish citizens in their civil war. as they had offices in both Nationalist and Republican held territories.

[John_Hartley]

Apart from this their only postal role appears to be that I mentioned in post 11 forwarding letters into enemy territory.

From the couple of pages of the company's history that I mentioned, most of this forwarding took place via its office in the Netherlands.

[MartinWills]

I wonder whop dealt with carriage for the "Fortnum & Mason" hampers a lucky few received?

[John_Hartley]

Depending on weight, either the Army Postal Service or the Military Forwarding Department.

The latter is what I now conclude was handling the heavy parcels that prompted my OP. Quartermaster General's report indicates that, by 1918, it had 18 officers and 515 ORs.

[Tommy1418]

John, according to Fortnum & Masons' archivist, she too is under the impression that their goods were shipped by TC & that they had the monopoly on doing this.....That is to say, Thomas Cook shipped the majority of packages to troops overseas in the B.E.F/M.E.F.

'Mess Boxes' (Provisions for 6-8 Officers) were the exception & it was recommended to, 'dispatch these to the relevant Transport Officer here in Blighty for transmission to the Front at London Prices......'

[centurion]

John, according to Fortnum & Masons' archivist, she too is under the impression that their goods were shipped by TC & that they had the monopoly on doing this.....That is to say, Thomas Cook shipped the majority of packages over 10lbs in weight to troops overseas in the B.E.F/M.E.F.

Do you mean all F&M's packages or ALL packages?

[Tommy1418]

She is stating F&M's packages....Can't state for certain regarding other outlets....I've tried getting clarification from TC's archivist but so far he's not responded....Their goods (F&M) would have been shipped in wooden boxes / crates or tin trunks as the wicker baskets on their own wouldn't have stood up to all the man handling, plus the boxes/ crates/ trunks were lockable. By mid 1915, with the realization that the war was going to drag on longer than first anticipated, F&M brought out a specific 'War Catalogue'....

[John_Hartley]

John, according to Fortnum & Masons' archivist, she too is under the impression that their goods were shipped by TC & that they had the monopoly on doing this.....That is to say, Thomas Cook shipped the majority of packages over 10lbs in weight to troops overseas in the B.E.F/M.E.F.

I'm in touch with the F & M archivist, who has been most helpful with information about the company's hampers, etc . Like me, she had been assuming that the information on Centurion's link at post #3 was reliable. I think she and I are now both agreed that the evidence points a different way. The evidence of Thoms Cook not being involved is twofold. Firstly, there is the existence of the Military Forwarding Department which appears to have been the body actually handling the parcels. And, second, there's no mention of Thomas Cook undertaking the work in that company's history (the F & M archivist has the relevent pages). Needless to say, we are happy to be corrected on this if actual evidence on TC's involvement appears.

TC was, however, involved in some wartime activities (other than continuing to arrnage holidays). The Company's office in Amsterdam handled mail between people in Britain and relatives, etc, living in enemy countries.