Clive Harris Posted 13 April , 2003 Share Posted 13 April , 2003 I have noticed recently that the peace that can only be found off the beaten track on the Somme has been shattered by a new addition to battlefield tourism, namely the "Circuit of Remembrance Flights" now operating adjacent to the Newfoundland Park area. Whilst I will concede that it is a free market economy in France and that this is a novel and attractive way for people to view the Somme, it has on a number of occasions drowned me out when discussing the BEF learning curve displayed by the 29th Div Attack in July and then the 51st Dv attack in November, appeared at low level just at the critical point I am relaying a veterens account in the Sunken lane or reading from Blunden on the approach to Hawthorn Ridge. Please do not take this as a serious attack on whoever flys/operates this aircraft but merely an observation from someone visiting the battlefield on a week to week basis, could I suggest a microlight (quieter, similar speed to an SE5a) or even better a hot air balloon. Perhaps before a less tolerant walking guide equips themselves with an RPG. Am I alone in this view? if so I will concede and accept our airborne friends as a fellow asset to Battlefield life, however there is a fine line between remembrance and tourism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Dodd Posted 13 April , 2003 Share Posted 13 April , 2003 Clive, I have to agree you with many of the points that you have made. The Somme is a very quiet and very nice place to spend time and I have got to agree that anything that would undo that isn't good in any way but (correct me if I am wrong) is it not that these flights are going over now and again and aren't really of much harm ? There is a danger that more and more companys will find this a profitable buisness and try it for themselves but for the moment I think we should all just see how many flights are going up and down and I don't think I have ever been anywhere where now and again a plane or a helicopter has gone over and made some noise to disturb somebody but I cannot see the people who run this being willing to chance to a less noisy alternative if it is going to cost them more money to run, but of course this novelty is going to be part of the many things that in my opinion will inevitably make the battlefields of the Great War a type of touristy place. Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Harris Posted 13 April , 2003 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2003 I'm not that overly bothered mate, it takes appears to take off a dozen or so times a day and living 20 mins from central London I am used to noise, it is just very in your face and out of place on the Somme, I am out with Paul on a walking tour next week and we will get a better picture of its full impact then. a few years ago I got to Niagra on my travels, you could sail up to it, walk under it, catch a fast lift to a viewing platform above it of hovver over it in a helicopter....the best view was when everyone went home and you just sat on the other bank. (Hope I am not sounding to pretentious) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Dodd Posted 13 April , 2003 Share Posted 13 April , 2003 ....the best view was when everyone went home and you just sat on the other bank. (Hope I am not sounding to pretentious) I have to agree with you how/why it feels out of place of the Somme, and don't worry I don't think you are sounding too pretentious Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 13 April , 2003 Share Posted 13 April , 2003 Like Clive I am not happy about this "development"; particularly given the close proximity to the Newfoundland Park which should be a place of quite contemplation, and not drowned out by the hum of rotar blades. I don't personally see this as a great improvement in our 'battlefield experience' and am quite surprised the Somme Tourist Board would allow it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 13 April , 2003 Share Posted 13 April , 2003 Seeing the battlefield from above is an excellent improvement/addition to the 'battlefield experience'. Recommended to all. New things always lead to criticism. The great expanse of guided battlefield tours was also seen as a negative thing by many. Some questions: What’s the difference between remembrance and tourism? Can you distinguish one from the other when you see two people waking in the field? For the hotel/BB owners and French farmers both a tourists anyway. Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 13 April , 2003 Share Posted 13 April , 2003 I quite agree that seeing the battlefields from the air is a good 'battlefield experience' but on this one you have only minutes in the air, and you cannot take photos: you have to buy them direct from the owner of this enterprise. It is therefore a purely commercial venture, and not really offering much of a 'service' in my humble view. I am never against things that are new simply because they are new; but I don't see this as a positive development at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 13 April , 2003 Share Posted 13 April , 2003 Paul, Is this a helicopter or a light aircraft - or god forbid both ! Choppers are particularly intrusive because of the quality of noise they produce and their habit of hovering immediately above you - often on Sundays the peace of surrey is shattered by the police chopper being used to persecute bikers. I think the remedy may well be worse than the disease here ! Irritating that the operator will not allow pictures - as you say just a cash cow for them. A couple of passes from a light aircraft a few times a day might be acceptable. I love the idea of the hot air balloon . That really would be a great platform to contemplate the battlefield from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 13 April , 2003 Share Posted 13 April , 2003 ‘purely commercial’ is not per def. a bad thing. I’m more suspicious of people claiming to serve something that those who say ‘I’m in it for the money’. The deal you describe Paul sounds like a rip-off however. Thanks for the warning. For approx. 150 euro’s per 3 persons you can hire an aircraft + pilot at Amiens & all the photo’s you want (I took 500 ) Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted 15 April , 2003 Share Posted 15 April , 2003 I was at Thiepval on Sunday afternoon and a damned a helicopter circled on at least four occasions, so low I thought it was looking for a place to land. It completely shattered the peace. I've no objection to this type of activity (I'd love to have a go myself!) but consideration must be given to those "on the ground". Part of the whole experience is enjoying the peace and serenity. What next, Paul Reed leading a tour on scramble bikes??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 15 April , 2003 Share Posted 15 April , 2003 Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall someone advertising flights over the Ypres Salient not too long ago - and nearly being killed in the rush by subscribers to this Forum. Is this an area where we need some consistent thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenwoodman Posted 15 April , 2003 Share Posted 15 April , 2003 Just the odd subtle difference tho'. I think you'll find it was fixed wing, from an airport not in the Salient, and with a lower height limit - 1000ft seems to ring a bell. There are different height limitations for helo and fixed wing, just as there are different noise footprints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 15 April , 2003 Share Posted 15 April , 2003 I agree that fixed wing is a lot less intrusive and I for one was one of the many people who expressed an interest in such a flight over the Somme. I understand that these flights will be infrequent and therefore not too intrusive. Endless low level helicopter flights from local take-off points are I think a totally different matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain mchenry Posted 15 April , 2003 Share Posted 15 April , 2003 I have been reading this topic with great interest as I am the holder of a Pilots Licence for light aircraft, and have offered on a seperate topic, upon my return from Kosovo in August, the chance to take interested Forum members flying over the Salient or to the Somme. When flying over interesting areas I will fly between 1000 - 2000 feet. This is for a number of resons. At those altitudes it is good for general battlefield photography, any lower and you loose the chance for a good photograph. Secondly, and most importantly is the subject of noise abatement. A light aircraft at 1000 - 2000 ft is no louder than a passing car, and would not drown out anybody talking. As well as that I have to take into consideration noise pollution on the local population. Any body flying with me will see that I will depart from Wevelgem airport about 25 kms from Ypres. The new helicopter venture mentioned seems to me to be run by someone cashing in on the battlefields. I can only imagine the reason he is operating from where he does is that he must have some sort of agreement with the local landowner therefore waiving the standard landing fees he would have to pay if he operated from an airport. I am not 100% sure on the operating restrictions put on rotary wing traffic compared to fix wing aircraft but I would be very suprised if he is legally allowed to operate below 500 feet. A helicopter is a very noisy aircraft and I think totally out of place for this region because of the noise. My room on the base here in Kosovo is 200 meters away from the main helicopter Landing Zone in Kosovo and see's 24 hour use from Gazelles to Chinooks. It can be a nightmare trying to sleep after a night shift, so I totally sympathise with those who are upset with the noise this chopper causes flying around the now peacefull Somme. . We use this phrase in the army..."Helicopters don't fly, they just beat the air into submission." Many regards Iain P.S. The idea of this guy not allowing punters to photograph from his aircraft, having to by his already made photos is ludicrous. Marco's idea of getting a small group and going to a local airfield and renting a plane with pilot is far better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Lines Posted 17 April , 2003 Share Posted 17 April , 2003 I was also at the Park on Sunday and the noise especially when the helicopter was taking off and landing (several times) did somewhat spoil the tour. Obviously these flights are run for commercial reasons (as are battlefield tours, B&B's and tea rooms) and the Newfoundland Park is an excellent site for the operator but I would like to see the take off site moved somewhere less popular. It would be relatively cheap for the operator to mini-bus their passengers a couple of miles away to start their flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Dodd Posted 21 April , 2003 Share Posted 21 April , 2003 The company have a website http://www.ensomme.net/ I think it shows that they really are in it for huge profits it shows that their cheapist flight is 38 Euro per person for 5 minutes and their most expensive is 90 Euro for 25 minutes ouch ! if you go to the link with the helicopter pictures there is a recording of the noise from it ! put your speakers up full blast and I am sure that will give you a rough idea Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Dodd Posted 21 April , 2003 Share Posted 21 April , 2003 Sorry forgot this there is the helicopter, it looks pretty noisy, and it is flying pretty low as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 21 April , 2003 Share Posted 21 April , 2003 By 'eck, that's a low flying whirly-bird One of the things that struck me on my visit was the peacefulness of the place, the thought of copters flying around that low seems like a sacrilege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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