Officers uniforms & equipment

[Jerry B]

Not sure how this works.

This is to JoolsMc.

I have a Woman's uniform. Has a tag inside jacket that I can partially read. Overalls. Denim Blouse. Contract no. (Can't read number). Size no. 8. 3 lines of measurements and then J. Compton Sons, Webb Ltd. then a date. 19X0. X looks like 4,6 or 8. The Jacket is a belted battle jacket type and also has a shirt that has buttons that attach the short pants (also included)to it. I am a military collector and have had this for years but not sure what it is. I have photos but not sure how to attach. Let me know if interested.

Hi,

WWII denim blouse overalls, probably 1940 dated and well outside the area of interest of this forum, though an interesting item in its own right, I have two examples in my collection, 1941 and 1945 but not by this maker.

[FROGSMILE]

Not sure how this works.

This is to JoolsMc.

I have a Woman's uniform. Has a tag inside jacket that I can partially read. Overalls. Denim Blouse. Contract no. (Can't read number). Size no. 8. 3 lines of measurements and then J. Compton Sons, Webb Ltd. then a date. 19X0. X looks like 4,6 or 8. The Jacket is a belted battle jacket type and also has a shirt that has buttons that attach the short pants (also included)to it. I am a military collector and have had this for years but not sure what it is. I have photos but not sure how to attach. Let me know if interested.

If you click on JoolsMc name his profile page will pipe and you should then be able to send him an email, the best way to attract his attention I think.

[Guest JCSW]

To JoolsMc

I found your March 16th post on this web site as a result of a google search I performed to find out more information on a Kent Constabulary uniform jacket that I recently purchased at a resale shop. There is a blue J. Compton, Sons, & Webb LTD London label sewn to the inside right chest pocket and on the inside of that pocket, there is another pocket with a white label sewn onto it with the characters "C54". I have not been able to locate any pictures or postings of this jacket on the internet, but I did locate some eBay listings which appear to match the silver Kent Constabulary buttons on the jacket; which indicate they are from the 1940's.

This jacket looks practically brand new to me and may never have been worn, or worn very gently. There are four large silver Kent Constabulary buttons down the front center of the jacket, six smaller Kent Constabulary buttons on the pockets (4) and shoulders (2) and silver "K" "C" metal initials sewn to both outside sleeve cuffs. There is also belt attached in the back that has a silver octagonal belt buckle and dual posts for cinching the belt; along with a snap for securing the end of the belt.

I wish I knew how to attach a photo or two to this post, but I'm not seeing how to accomplish that. I was going to have some alterations done to the jacket so that I could wear it, but I am going to hold off on that in case this jacket would be something you'd be interested in. Please let me know if you have an interest in this jacket.

[Andrew Upton]

This jacket looks practically brand new to me and may never have been worn, or worn very gently. There are four large silver Kent Constabulary buttons down the front center of the jacket, six smaller Kent Constabulary buttons on the pockets (4) and shoulders (2) and silver "K" "C" metal initials sewn to both outside sleeve cuffs. There is also belt attached in the back that has a silver octagonal belt buckle and dual posts for cinching the belt; along with a snap for securing the end of the belt.

Your description of the jacket would tend to suggest it has an open-collar, for wearing with shirt and tie. This style did not come into regular use with most Police forces until the very late 1940's/post-war period, and for the most part they are a 1950's onwards thing. C51 is probably the officers "collar" number - officer 51 of C division of the Kent Constabulary. Jackets of this period are fairly common even in good condition, so if you intended to modify it for your own use it would be very unlikely to be affecting a particularly rare or historical item.

[Chasemuseum]

Chris, indeed - that vast majority of officers wore the standard service dress into battle. The wind up was as I mentioend before for particular reasons and usually as part of orders for the operation as being a noted exception to expected orders of dress. The reason so few survive si that they were typically turned back into stores or ragged when worn out, like all the other 02 SD worn by the men. The vast majoprity of jackets that turn up were demob outfits and were less likely to have been worn in the line. Clothing in the line was usually pretty fetid and didn't last long and was not somethign you'd want to have on your back if you could avoid it.

Reference Robert Graves "Goodbye to all that" , when attached to the 2nd Battalion Royal Welch Fusiliers, he arrived at the unit in an officer's tunic with shoulder strap rank and was admonished for wearing a "wind-up" tunic and ordered to have it altered to cuff rank that day. (Chapter 14 about half way through, page 109 in the paperback).

So the decision is more at a battalion/regimental level than individual choice. Sam-brown and normal officers tunics were used extensively in the field throughout the war. Some of the most interesting photos are group photos taken at training schools in France with officers from multiple line units. The variation of uniform is surprising.

Cheers

Ross

PS - regards small size clothing surviving. This is not surprising. Old clothing is often re-issued as temporary "work dress" to be befouled in various activities. It comes as big bundles of mixed sizes, commercially laundered by boiling and starching. In the 70s we would line up and just sign for 2-pair of shirts and trousers then be expected to swap between ourselves for our sizes. We would get a "fresh" issue every week. The problem was if it was all small sizes, nobody could use it so it would be returned still clean and undamaged. So the medium and large sizes were "consumed" but the small was ultimately surplused.

[Guest]

Just a snippet of information. I worked in the accounts dept of J Compton Sons & Webb from 1966 to 1968.  They were based on Old Ford Road, Bow, East London. The uniforms were made there also all headdress. Gloves were made in Newport (think) can't really remember. There was a Gloucester branch as well and a Swindon branch. I can't remember (even though I regularly sent Invoices for signature and confirmation of receipt of goods) what part of the uniforms were made in the branches.

[FROGSMILE]

5 hours ago, yeatie said:

Just a snippet of information. I worked in the accounts dept of J Compton Sons & Webb from 1966 to 1968.  They were based on Old Ford Road, Bow, East London. The uniforms were made there also all headdress. Gloves were made in Newport (think) can't really remember. There was a Gloucester branch as well and a Swindon branch. I can't remember (even though I regularly sent Invoices for signature and confirmation of receipt of goods) what part of the uniforms were made in the branches.

I recall being issued with Compton and Webb uniform and headdress.  Their berets were especially favoured as being well made, less like a plate in dimensions, and with a high quality leather band.  All canny soldiers tried to obtain one if they could. 

There was a thread some years ago about the company and one of the family members posted and referred to his grandfather’s service during the Great War.

 

Afternote.  See here: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/192934-officers-uniforms-equipment/?tab=comments#comment-2239612

 

Edited 7 August , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Richard Wang]

在2015年3月16日下午8点48分，Guest JoolsMc说：

我的曾祖父是约翰·康普顿（John Compton），他创立了J. 康普顿父子。他前往克里米亚为在那儿服务的英国陆军军官制作束腰外衣，外套和帽子后开始了自己的生意。第一家工厂在斯温顿，康普顿（J. 1922年，他们成为J. Compton）是最大的女性雇主之一。康普顿。儿子和韦伯在哈克尼（哈克尼）的福特路（福特店）成立了一家工厂，雇用了5000多名员工。约翰·康普顿（约翰·康普顿）的两个长子在第二次世界大战期间被杀（我的祖父，PPF康普顿上尉，东萨里郡（East Surrey Regt。）于1941年在贝鲁特至大马士革路上死亡，在圣瓦列里/敦刻尔克的后卫行动中幸存下来，在那里他与他并肩作战阿盖尔和萨瑟兰高地人受伤，成为最后一批被撤离到英国的BEF军官之一；而他的兄弟保罗，在马来亚遇害的飞行员）。祖父去世后，作为和解的一部分，祖母收到了公司股票，后来她莫名其妙地卖掉了公司股票。在家族之外出售这些股份使科茨·维耶拉（科茨Viyella）拥有了控股权。科茨Viyella随后被圣 Dupont收购，然后又被法院接管，最终最终卖了原始Coates Viyella产品组合中的许多多家企业。

快进了30年，我和我的弟弟开始询问有关回购家族企业的信息。我们发现该公司在伍斯特设有办事处，但似乎没有交易。与母公司联系并询问是否可以回购公司后，我们完全没有收到任何答复。在我们进行初步查询大约一年后，我们决定再次尝试与所有者联系。那时我们发现公司已经解散。因此，我们决定重新注册J.Compton Sons＆Webb，现在正努力在伦敦东区重新建立业务，作为英国制造的传统优质军用夹克和大衣的零售商。自重新注册公司以来，我们已与布料的原始供应商之一（自拿破仑战争以来一直提供军用纺织品）建立了联系，现在正寻求获取将作为产品基础的原始切割图案书籍。此外，我们有兴趣回购旧的J. Compton Sons＆Webb产品以供存档和收藏，因此，如果您拥有我们的任何旧夹克或外套和愿意出售，我和我的兄弟将很高兴收到您的来信。您。

 

Hi, I am a collector from China, Because when I was studying one of the cape I bought found this name(J. Compton Sons & Webb Ltd.) 

 

Maybe it's presumptuous, but can you help me confirm the production time of this cape?

[Michelle Young]

Welcome to the forum Richard. Unfortunately, Jools is no longer a member here as denoted by guest prefix. It is possible that he rejoined using the same username as there is a current member JoolsMc. 

Michelle 

[Tom K]

8405-99-122-7282 is a NATO stock number - Probably1970's production. Definitely not ww1.

[Richard Wang]

Thank you both for your reply, this has largely solved my doubt!

[headgardener]

3 hours ago, Tom K said:

8405-99-122-7282 is a NATO stock number - Probably1970's production. Definitely not ww1.

 

Most likely early/mid 1960s before the Highland Brigade was amalgamated with the Lowland Brigade (1968, I think).

[Tom K]

I was thinking 1970's because the two digit country code - in this case "99"  for the United Kingdom - was added to the NATO stock number system in 1974.

 

The number for the item if made previous to 1974 would have been 8405-122-7282. 

 

It could be a case of the nomenclature for the item being carried forward even though it was obsolete, similar to the way that the large pack of the Patt. '37 webbing set was officially "Pack, W.E. Patt. ’08" until 1946 when it became "Pack".

 

T.K.

Edited 10 September , 2020 by Tom K

[wainfleet]

Someone has posted a guide to postwar contract numbers elsewhere on the Internet. The above contract number is almost certainly 1978.

[Richard Wang]

On 10/09/2020 at 21:26, wainfleet said:

Someone has posted a guide to postwar contract numbers elsewhere on the Internet. The above contract number is almost certainly 1978.

Is there a link to this guide?

[wainfleet]

2 hours ago, Richard Wang said:

Is there a link to this guide?

 

Here you go.

 

https://hmvf.co.uk/topic/31684-using-labels-and-markings-to-date-postwar-british-clothing-and-equipment/

Expect this thread to be locked soon as we are now well off topic!

[joany]

I've just come across this topic on a search for the correct name for Compton Son and Webb. My mother (Lilian Gunter) worked there at the beginning of the war. The following is what she told me about it, quoted from the book I am writing about my Gunter ancestry. ''At the same time in 1939, aged 14, Arthur’s eldest daughter Lilian started her first job at Compton Sons & Webb, earning 11 shillings and 9 pence a week and being left with 1 shilling and 9 pence after giving her mother 10 shillings for her keep. After training she was a machinist making uniforms for the military, until such time as it was decided that there were enough uniforms in stock and some of the extra staff employed at the beginning of the war were no longer required. It was then that Mum went to work at the Plessey factory, where she later met my father, Jack Thurston. ''