Transit times from Salonika to UK for casualties

[mutley]

Can anyone suggest what the transit time was for a casualty from Salonika to UK in 1916. My grandfather was returned to the UK and ended up in a hospital in Manchester, his record shows him as being MEF until 25 Feb 1916 and then Home 26 Feb 1916. I am trying to work out when he left Salonika, I'm guessing that his injury must have been quite serious to warrant him being sent all the way back to the UK.

Any help appreciated.

[Kate Wills]

As British Forces didn't arrive in Salonika in big numbers until November 1915, he was a very early casualty of the campaign. He might even had had injuries that were effected by severe frostbite, though that's only a guess.

What was his unit?

[mutley]

Kate

He was 6th Leinster Regiment, the first British Battalion to land. Family history states that he was wounded at Gallipoli but whilst this is possible I haven't been able to prove it; lots of casualties in Gallipoli but no names shown in the War Diary. His pension record and service records survive but they only detail his subsequent wounding on the Somme in 1916 when he was with the 7th Battalion. His movements are shown as 09 Jul 1915 MEF until 25 Feb 1916, given that the Bn had left Gallipoli and was in Salonika at the time his records show him leaving the MEF I am assuming that he has moved with the Bn from Mudros to Salonika. I guess it is possible that he stayed on Mudros as a casualty and is evacuated from there as the next entry is that he is at Home 26 Feb 1916, admitted to a hospital (cant read the details) in Manchester where he is treated until discharged from Hospital 06 April 1916 and joins the 3rd (Depot) Battalion Leinster Regt at Portsmouth staying there until 10 Jul 1916 then to France 11 Jul 1916 (16 Inf Base), joins 7th Bn 04 Aug 1916 and is then wounded during the advance on Guillemont 03 Sept 1916. This wound is a serious GSW to the chest and he is eventually evacuated to Cardiff and subsequently back to Ireland and then into the Labour Corps.

[KGB]

Many were sent to Malta not Britain - and Malaria and frostbite accounted for more wounded than Bulgarian bayonets and bullets

[mutley]

KGB

You could be right, it might be disease instead of an actual wound, disease was also commonplace on Gallipoli. Guess I'll never know.

thanks

[Kate Wills]

Have you tried the local press Mutley?

[mutley]

Kate

I havent managed to find anything online and as his home was Navan, Co Meath I haven't been able to visit. There is nothing in the British Newspaper archive online.

Mutley

[KGB]

Mutley all I know is that official figs for Macedonia showed that malaria and frostbite accounted for over 50% casualties plus dysentery of course!

[mutley]

Thanks, I've now managed to view the Bn War Diary and it shows a lot of soldiers going back and forth to hospital in Salonika, it also mentions soldiers who were sick and left in Mudros when the Bn was called to Salonika at short notice. I would have thought that they would have been sent to Malta or Egypt for hospitalisation. Sadly I dont think I will ever get to the bottom of it, my guess is that my Grandfather served on Gallipoli and left with the Bn and went to Mudros and then on to Salonika where he became ill at some stage and was shipped back to the UK.

[KGB]

Thanks, I've now managed to view the Bn War Diary and it shows a lot of soldiers going back and forth to hospital in Salonika, it also mentions soldiers who were sick and left in Mudros when the Bn was called to Salonika at short notice. I would have thought that they would have been sent to Malta or Egypt for hospitalisation. Sadly I dont think I will ever get to the bottom of it, my guess is that my Grandfather served on Gallipoli and left with the Bn and went to Mudros and then on to Salonika where he became ill at some stage and was shipped back to the UK.

Mutley we may both be getting somewhere! My Grandfather was at Gallipoli then on to Salonika - he was transferred into the 7th Bn R Ir F and sent to the western front. He mentioned a troop ship with nurses and (gosh!) clean sheets! My guess is that he & others arr in England and it was too far to send wounded who recovered back so what with the Somme and all they ended up "elsewhere"

[mutley]

KGB

I think you are right, family history says that my Grandfather was sent back to the Leinsters Depot at Birr when he came out of hospital, his service record shows him being sent to the 3rd Depot Bn which was still at Birr (it moved to Portsmouth in 1917) and he asked to rejoin his Battalion but was told that it was too far to send him and if he wanted to go back to the front he could go to France. He then went to 16 Inf Base Depot in France before joining the 7th Bn on the Somme

[purley]

As far as I am aware most of the casualties were sent to Italy rather than Egypt or Malta

John

[KGB]

As far as I am aware most of the casualties were sent to Italy rather than Egypt or Malta

John

My knowledge of Malta is limited to "The Monocled Mutineer" where it says Percy Topliss RAMC was stationed in Malta looking after Salonika casualties!

[mutley]

John, KGB

thanks for the replies. The war diary sadly doesn't say where the casualties went to, neither does the Official Regimental History. I've always struggled to understand why they would ship casualties all the way back to UK, instead of Italy, Malta, Egypt etc. My assumption has always been that those that were really badly wounded or seriously ill would have been sent back to the UK and the less serious casualties treated in the closer locations, however I have nothing to back this up.

Mutley

[Sue Light]

As far as I know (which might not be very far) the majority of casualties were sent to Malta. One account I have here states:

From the Salonica army up to August, 1917, in round figures, 2,600 officers and nurses and 64,500 other ranks had been admitted to the Malta hospitals; the majority arrived in the summer and autumn of 1916

The full account is here:

Malta Military Hospitals

Sue

[KGB]

As far as I know (which might not be very far) the majority of casualties were sent to Malta. One account I have here states:

From the Salonica army up to August, 1917, in round figures, 2,600 officers and nurses and 64,500 other ranks had been admitted to the Malta hospitals; the majority arrived in the summer and autumn of 1916

The full account is here:

Malta Military Hospitals

Sue

Sue and Mutley - I think the best theory is that seriously wounded went to England and others less serious to Malta.

[centurion]

A Gt Gt Uncle of mine caught malaria in Salonika whilst serving with the RE as a sergeant (he was a railway specialist). He was sent directly home to Britain. He was not a young man (he'd served in the South African War) and 'they' appear to have reasoned that whilst he was not in immediate danger it would be some time before he was fit for service again, if ever. In fact he was discharged months after getting back and died about 6 years later having been in poor health as a result of his service. I think that if you were badly wounded you got shipped to Egypt where there were large military hospitals with the relevant experience.

[KGB]

A Gt Gt Uncle of mine caught malaria in Salonika whilst serving with the RE as a sergeant (he was a railway specialist). He was sent directly home to Britain. He was not a young man (he'd served in the South African War) and 'they' appear to have reasoned that whilst he was not in immediate danger it would be some time before he was fit for service again, if ever. In fact he was discharged months after getting back and died about 6 years later having been in poor health as a result of his service. I think that if you were badly wounded you got shipped to Egypt where there were large military hospitals with the relevant experience.

Good point Cent - it seems that some got sent to Egypt some to Malta and some to England!

[mutley]

Could it be that those suffering from illness (malaria, enteric fever etc) were sent home to the UK as it was far less likely for them to contract the illness again and they had a better chance of recovery in UK, along with those who had less chance of returning to active duty due to the nature of their wounds, age etc and those with a good prognosis of returning to duty quickly and could be of use in the MEF went to Malta, Egypt etc? Just a thought, once again I have no evidence to back this up. Another option I guess is if there was room to ship them home and the UK hospitals weren't too busy i.e. before the major offensive on the Somme, then they went home?

[KGB]

Could it be that those suffering from illness (malaria, enteric fever etc) were sent home to the UK as it was far less likely for them to contract the illness again and they had a better chance of recovery in UK, along with those who had less chance of returning to active duty due to the nature of their wounds, age etc and those with a good prognosis of returning to duty quickly and could be of use in the MEF went to Malta, Egypt etc? Just a thought, once again I have no evidence to back this up. Another option I guess is if there was room to ship them home and the UK hospitals weren't too busy i.e. before the major offensive on the Somme, then they went home?

The army never seemed rational creature so conjecture may be all we have! Wish we had a definitive answer to this conundrum!

[purley]

I have to query Sue's statement

Of the men from the 7th R Berks who died out of area, 2 were pows in Bulgaria, 7 died and were buried in the UK, 2 on the western front after being transferred and 6 are buried in Italy - 2 at Taranto, 1 each at Cavaletto, Bralo, Arquata and Giavera - not a single one in Malta. The records show most of the malaria casualties being sent to Italy to either recover or sent back to the UK.

I had a quick look at the Malta Hospital site and it seemed that several hospitals just moved to Salonika after the hospital ships were sunk. The reports I have indicated a transfer of men from the Salonika theatre via the French/Italian route to cross over the short stretch of water from Greece to Italy and thence by train to either hospitals in Italy or to the channel ports for England.

[CarylW]

I have to query Sue's statement.......

A search of Google books using the term 'wounded Salonika to Malta' brought up a few results including these:

A Short History of Malta '... Malta became a hospitalization centre for casualties from the Dardanelles and Salonika campaigns and tens of thousands of wounded men were treated in the islands.....'

The Kappilian of Malta' ....In the past three years Malta, 'the nurse of the Mediterranean', had established twenty-seven hospitals and 25,000 beds, where the wounded and battle- weary men from Gallipoli, Salonika, Italy, and France could come and be cared for...'

A Short History of the Order of Saint John of Jerusalem.....and the autumn again brought another large influx of malaria patients from Salonika. From 1915 down to May 1919, some 200,000 men of all ranks were treated in the Malta Hospitals (complete book available on archive.org)

Other references came up

There is also another complete book on archive.org about Malta hospitals during the war. Malta: Nurse of the Mediterranean

[keithmroberts]

There is quite a lot on the hospitals in Malta in "Gallipoli The Malta Connection by John A Mizzi.

Keith

[Sue Light]

It would be interesting to be able to compare the figures for those sent to Italy and those sent to Malta - unless of course it's the Malta figures that are being queried. I find it hard to believe that Italy had the hospital capacity to care for many thousands of sick and wounded from other theatres, though I admit to being foggy on the facilities there.

Sue