Underage soldier?

[Ed ROBINSON]

Any ideas please.

I recently picked up a 14-15 trio to Pte Harold TAYLOR 3236, 1/7^th Gordon Highlanders.

He is buried in Sale cemetery with a date of death as 7/5/16 aged 18. His medal index card shows France 2/5/15.

I’m guessing that he would have been 17 when he landed in France.

1. Was he sent back to England as being under age?
   
2. Did he become ill/injured and then return to England?
   

Unfortunately his service records did not survive and he is simply listed as died. Any ideas where to look online or who to write to as I am in Australia?

It’s a funny thing but I feel duty bound to find out more about Harold, A soldier who did his duty and died too young. I don’t want him to be simply a name on a group of medals on my wall.

Thanks Ed

[Kitchener's Bugle]

Hi Ed, you might want to give the Gordon Highlanders Museum a try, they have volunteers who carry out reasearch.

http://www.gordonhighlanders.com/family/index.cfm?page=80

Also he is featured on this site - perhaps they will forward his grave photo as they have one.

http://www.traffordwardead.co.uk/index.php?sold_id=s%3A8%3A%22684%2Csale%22%3B&letter=&place=&war=I&soldier=Taylor

You may have to apply for his Death Certificate to assertain his cause of death.

Given that you have his service medals you can say with certainty that he served abroad. Likely that he was injured and then died of wounds and was buried "at home".

Regards, KB.

[Kitchener's Bugle]

Some more info:-

The 7th Bn Gordon Highlanders formed three battalions in the Great War.

1/7th Bn The local Territorial Force battalion formed in 1908 from the Rifle Volunteers. In May 1915 it arrived in France in 153rd Brigade, 51st (Highland) Division. In October 1918 it amalgamated with the 1/6th Bn in 152nd Brigade within the 51st (Highland) Division) to form the 6/7th Bn and was disbanded after the Great War.

2/7th Bn. A second line battalion formed for UK service in 1914. It absorbed the 2/6th Bn in 1915 and it was disbanded in 1917.

3/7th Bn . A third line unit formed in early 1915 to provide recruits for the 1/7th and 2/7th Battalions. It was later absorbed into the 4th (Reserve) Bn Gordon Highlanders

[Ed ROBINSON]

Thanks KB, I will try the Gordsons Museum, I have a photo from the Saint Luke’s Church Derby wall memorial showing Harold Taylor. This is interesting as it is in the same city but quite away from the cemetery.

All the best Ed

[kenmorrison]

Thanks KB, I will try the Gordsons Museum, I have a photo from the Saint Luke’s Church Derby wall memorial showing Harold Taylor. This is interesting as it is in the same city but quite away from the cemetery.

All the best Ed

I think this is another Harold Taylor.

Your man (the Gordon Highlander) was the son of

Son of William and Annie G. Taylor, of 8, Lyndhurst St., Chorlton-on-Medlock, Manchester.

Sale Cemetery is nearby.

FreeBMD has a death in the April to June quarter 1916 in Huddersfield, West Yorkshire of Harlod Taylor age 19 (Volume 9a Page 386)

I suspect that this is the site of the hospital where he died.

I did read somewhere that local rail companies offered free travel to men who wanted to enlist and this was used by underage "boys" to travel as far from home as possible to enlist so that they would not be found and dragged home. This might explain a Manchester lad as a Gordon Highlander.

[Kitchener's Bugle]

This might explain a Manchester lad as a Gordon Highlander......

This is for me what makes him (and other men like him interesting!) Ken....

[ss002d6252]

He doesn't appear to be on SDGW as that would probably have answered the question regarding his enlistment.

[Ed ROBINSON]

I seem to recall from previous readings one of the volunteer Scottish battalions was more Manchester? than Scottish but I’m dammed if I can remember where I read it! Now I’m having to trawl through my books/reference files to find it again.

I look up the silver war badge list and came up with Enlistment date between 6/1/1915 and 18/1/1915 as per silver war list casualties serial no

3103 JM HARRISON 20/12/14

3206 Alex Barnet 6/1/15

3321 WE Taylor 18/1/15

3395 JE Harris 19/1/15

3401 Percy Smith 20/1/1915.

I think my only hope will be with the Gordon Museum and if I can get a copy of his death certificate.

[Ed ROBINSON]

Found it : Manchester Scottish.

http://www.hellfire-corner.demon.co.uk/reviewmanchscot.htm

[John_Hartley]

I

Your man (the Gordon Highlander) was the son of

Son of William and Annie G. Taylor, of 8, Lyndhurst St., Chorlton-on-Medlock, Manchester.

Sale Cemetery is nearby.

Nearby - but not nearby enough, in my view. Sale would not be the usual burial place for someone who had lived in Chorlton on Medlock. Perhaps they had moved there after he died.

By the by, I'm struggling to find the family on the 1901 or 1911 England census.

[Amberdog]

Found Harold death entry in Scotland. Interesting reading.

[CGM]

Oh my. Another dreadful disease we are so fortunate to be free from, although I believe it is still present in other parts of the world.

[Amberdog]

I've also found his death entry in the Machester Evening News 8th May 1916 and also his parents marriage entry from 1st Apr 1893 (120 years ago tomorrow!). I'll work on reducing them and posting them here but if you would like a copy 'as is' send my a private message with your email address. Sad way to go for such a young lad. I'm just south of Aberdeen if you discover anything through the museum that needs looking up.

Looks like the War Diary for the 7th Gordons is available from Apr 1915-Oct 1918, ref WO 95/2882 on the Arcre.com website.

[kenmorrison]

Just a bit of background:

In September 1914, Stobhill Hospital was requisitioned by RAMC staff of theTerritorial Force and redesignated as the 3rd and 4th Scottish General Hospitals.

Ruchill Hospital opened in 1900 as a Glasgow Corporation infectious diseases hospital, with initially 440 beds. By 1915 272 beds had been added for tuberculosis patients.

Ken

[Amberdog]

Just a bit of background:

In September 1914, Stobhill Hospital was requisitioned by RAMC staff of theTerritorial Force and redesignated as the 3rd and 4th Scottish General Hospitals.

Ruchill Hospital opened in 1900 as a Glasgow Corporation infectious diseases hospital, with initially 440 beds. By 1915 272 beds had been added for tuberculosis patients.

Ken

Thanks for the history on Ruchill. My Dad was treated as a boy there for TB. He was also born in the 1920's at 5 Ruchill Street. I've tried finding the article but I'm sure I read something recently on the BBC website that the Ruchill Hospital was away to be torn down.

[seaforths]

Ed, the 6th Seaforth Highlanders (also of the 51st Div.) went on a recruiting drive throughout England in 1914/15 and I can only assume that other Territorial Battalions did the same. As for him being underage, my granddad joined 18th August 1914 aged 16, no questions asked. By the time he reached France he was 17. He thought he had gotten away with it until someone that knew him reported him as being underage. This was probably August 1915 as his birth certificate is stamped on the back with the Brigade Stamp dated coincidentally 18th August 1915.

[Ed ROBINSON]

A big thanks to every one for the effort that you have all gone to to help me out. I wonder if he was returned to the UK as being under age then caught diphtheria or if he became ill in France then returned home. At least his parents had him home.

[seaforths]

Ed, if he wasn't discovered/reported as being underage then I suspect he probably caught diphtheria at home. Even if he had been discovered/reported as being underage he might not necessarily have been sent home. My granddad incidentally was not sent home after being reported, he was retained with the Battalion as a stretcher bearer and returned to Front Line duties when he was of the legal age to be there.

Parents found it nigh on impossible to have their underage sons returned many were sent to a holding camp until they were old enough to be there.

Edit. He might also have been sent back with diphtheria but I don't know whether they could quarantine and transport infectious cases.

[rolt968]

Harold Taylor, son of William and Annie Gertrude Taylor of 8 Lyndhurst Street, "C o M" was baptised in St Matthew's Church, Ardwick, Manchester on 2 February 1898. The note in the margin says that he was born on 3 December 1897.(Manchester, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1915: www.ancestry.co.uk/)

I think that makes him one day short of 17 years and 5 months when he went to France on 2 May 1915 and just over 18 years 5 months when he died. I think he was supposed to be 19 at that stage in the war, the minimum age was lowered later on.

1/7 Gordon Highlanders was the Deeside Highland battalion of the Gordon Highlanders, with its recruiting area in Kincardineshire and Deeside. The headquarters was at Banchory, where the battalion mobilised on 4 August 1914. (Territorially it was the next TF infantry battalion north of where I live.) 1/7 GH went to Bedford later in August 1914. The date for the battalion's move to France is 3 May 1915. (Edwards, British Regiments 1914-1918.)

Roger.