Newly found 14 year old casualty

[museumtom]

OK Guys, there is a distinct possibility that this lad was 14 when he died of wounds. I need your help to nail it down please.

Here is all I have;-

HAWE, EDWARD FRANCIS. Rank: Private. Regiment or Service: South African Horse. Unit; 4^th. Date of Death:20/09/1916. Service No:606. Born in Tipperary. Died of wounds.

Irish Independent; Hawe—September 20, 1916, of wounds received in action, Edward Francis Hawe, of Cleveland, youngest son of the late Philip Hawe, of Briarsfield, Mullinhane, County Tipperary. R.I.P.

Liverpool Echo, 06/10/1916. Died From Wounds; Hawe-September 20, of wounds received in action, Edward Francis Hawe, dearly-loved brother of Philip Hawe, 24, Cumberand Avenue, Sefton Park. R.I.P.

http://www.census.na...lvemnon/838465/

Grave or Memorial Reference:IV D 3. Cemetery: Morogoro Cemetery.

What do you think?

Kind regards.

Tom

[ss002d6252]

There's no sign of him with the family on the 1901census which would add a bit support to your case.

[ss002d6252]

There was a apparently an Edward Hawe born 1902 in County Tipperary for which this site has a record (pay per view - records may be free somewhere else)

http://tipperarysout...d.ie/search.php

[museumtom]

Thanks lads, I am quite happy to be shown to be wrong. If he was 9 in the 1911 Census he would not me in the 1901 Census.

Kind regards.

Tom.

[Chris_Baker]

Question is, how did you get into the South African Horse?

[arboskittler]

Can his brother (Philip), be tracked in the 1901 census?

Andy.

[ss002d6252]

http://www.census.na...erstown/838675/ . There is another Hawe family who lived in Mullinhane as given in the original article rather than Kilvemnon (as given in the original census link) but there is no Edward in that family. The 2 places do appear to be right next door to each other.

[JimSmithson]

I think you need something taking him or the family to Africa, for him somehow to end up in a unit that never left that continent and for him to die in Tanzania. Could be quite a story!

Jim

[ss002d6252]

http://www.census.na...lvemnon/838465/

On the 1911 census there are 2 living children not with the household, one of these is possibly Philip.

The father , Philip, married Edward's mother in 1899.. This would mean that if Philip was his son then he was from a previous marriage.

[Guest]

There's a E F Hawe with SA connection Click an uncle? (bit of a long shot)

Mike

[Robert Dale]

And an E F Hawe reported as serving as a Trooper in "Gorringe's Flying Column" and as a Guide in the Field Intelligence Department during the Boer War. No idea of place of origin though. May be the same E F Hawe as above.

Robet

[ss002d6252]

And an E F Hawe reported as serving as a Trooper in "Gorringe's Flying Column"

There was also a G Hawe listed.

[Robert Dale]

I suspect the Philip Hawe mentioned in the Liverpool Echo Death Notice for his brother died in the last quarter of 1918 aged 45 (Spanish Flu??). The death was registered in Toxteth Park district - consistent with the Sefton Park address referred to and the record of Probate (granted 14 December to Alicette Hawe - effects nearly £9,000) has the same address : 24 Cumberland Avenue. Philip was born in 1873, so I doubt that Edward Francis was 14 when he died. If he is the same Edward F recorded as arriving from from Beira in 1913, he was born c1876).

Robert

[museumtom]

How I found this lad was going through the obituaries in the Irish Independent for 1914-1920 and I found this;

Irish Independent; Hawe—September 20, 1916, of wounds received in action, Edward Francis Hawe, of Cleveland, youngest son of the late Philip Hawe, of Briarsfield, Mullinhane, County Tipperary. R.I.P.

Then I had a look at the CWGC and found his burial details. I asked Mike Haigh to help me with this and he found the item in the Liverpool Echo-Liverpool Echo, 06/10/1916. Died From Wounds; Hawe-September 20, of wounds received in action, Edward Francis Hawe, dearly-loved brother of Philip Hawe, 24, Cumberand Avenue, Sefton Park. R.I.P.

From Roberts findings I can see that the Edward Francis Howe in the Liverpool Echo must not be the casualty?

Kind regards.Tom

[Robert Dale]

This Philip Hawe was born or baptised on 14 September 1873, son of Philip Hawe and Alice Dwyer, in Mullinahone. One of his sons - Philip Reginald Hawe - went on to become a surgeon in Liverpool and served with the RAMC in WW2.

Robert

[Robert Dale]

I think it is quite possible that Philip Hawe (living in Liverpool from c1905) and Edward Francis Hawe were indeed brothers. I can find a registration index entry for an Edward Hawe in Callan registration district in 1876 (but this of course does not state who the parents are) as well as records for a Michael Hawe (b1866) John Hawe (b1868) and Philip Hawe (b 1873) - all sons of Philip Hawe and Alice Dwyer and born in the Tipperary area but I can't conclusively make the link between them and Edward. However, if there was a link, Edward Francis would be the youngest son of this family, and would have a brother called Philip, so there is no inconsistency between the two death notices.

There's a family tree on line including these four individuals, but it doesn't add anything more about Edward. It does say that Michael Hawe was born at Briarsfield, Mullinahone, so does suggest that your Irish Independent man and Michael are related.

Briarsfield House is mentioned in one of the witness statements for the Bureau of Military History (http://www.bureauofm.../BMH.WS1335.pdf - see page 12) so may be a larger property in the area.

Robert

[Robert Dale]

Is it possible that Edward Francis was wounded in action at Mlali (http://samilitaryhistory.org/vol103ws.html)?

Robert

[museumtom]

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner lads and lassies, was away with the fairies for a while. You know when you are called away and have to concentrate on something? it was that type of thing.

His MIC states;-His Medal Index Card states, No 606, 1^st International Brigade, 4^th South African Horse, “D” Squad (R.O. 24. 22.12.15). Next of kin, Brother, Phillip Hawe, 62 Dale Street, Liverpool. Children if any; name. Embarking 6.2.16. Wounder i8n Action-Dangerously 18.9.16. Died of wounds 20.9.1916. Medals engraved. There is a section for Date of Birth but it is blank.

Thank you for all you help.

Kind Regards.

Tom.

[ph0ebus]

I see your hard work and determination have paid off!

Edward Francis Hawe, a boy soldier of the Great War

Well done, Tom!

-Daniel

[museumtom]

Thank you Daniel, it took a while but we are there now.

Kind regards.

Tom.

[Waggoner]

Tom,

Very interesting article! Do you know what medals, if any, he was issued?

All the best,

Gary

[museumtom]

No sorry.

Tom.

[RANGER8894]

I too was hoping Tom's good work would have led to a good result here as I was brought up close to that area. I am 99% sure it is a case of mistaken identity.

Two Edward Hawe's from Mullinahone cause the problem.

I pulled a copy of Edward Hawe's Birth Cert which confired b. 4 Apr 1902 in Ballyduggan, Mullinahone, County Tipperary. There is no second christian name on his certificate.

f. Philip Hawe m. Margaret (Maggie) Minogue. I have not found a death record for Edward Hawe as yet.

Edward Francis Hawe b. 6 Feb 1876 Mullinahone, County Tipperary, Ireland & d. 20 Sep 1916 Tanzania. (NOK Philip Hawe d. 24 Oct 1918 at 24 Cumberland Avenue, Toxteth Park, Liverpool)

f. Philip Hawe m. Alice Dwyer

The MIC for Edward Francis Hawe which Tom kindly copied to me shows Philip Hawe (Liverpool) as NOK. W.I.A. 18 Sep 16 D.O.W. 20 Sep 16

.

There are two Passenger lists (one referred to above) which suggest E.F. Hawe was working as an Accountant in South Africa before the War. Came back to England in 1913 and went back out in October 1914.

The MIC states Medals Engraved. I will try to set the birth cert as my profile image so anyone interested can have it.

[museumtom]

Hello Peter.

Many thanks for your kind research. I have adjusted my records accordingly. So close and yet so far.

Kind regards.

Tom

[nigelcave]

Off topic from the determined and hard work that has made this a most interesting topic to follow, but honestly ... the article: fair enough in most respects but how on earth does he (the journalist) come up with the statement that John Condon's is the most visited grave on the Western Front. I mean, what evidence is there for the 'most' part of that statement? All he would have had to do is add in 'amongst' and put an 's' on the grave to be accurate (I am not quite sure what exactly it would mean, mind you) rather than making Condon THE visited grave on the whole WF. Rant over; back to packing up books.