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Old Contemptibles Association - List of badge numbers

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AndrewThornton
On 04/02/2020 at 23:01, Tracy said:

Hello - maybe not the correct forum.  I rescued some old booklets when my neighbour was disposing of them.  They are regarding the Woolwich and District Branch Annual Dinner Dance in 1927 and 1928 and have been autographed by various members such as Sir H. Uniacke, Rev Owen Watkins, W Leaney etc.  The toastmaster was Capt Dann in 1927.

 

Would anybody know if they are of value to anybody?  Happy to donate them to the IWM if they would be interested.

 

Many thanks

 

Tracy

Hello Tracy. I have sent you a PM. 

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Bardess

@Tracy

You will need to make a further post to enable access to the PM system [which shows as an envelope to the left of your name on the header]

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Dia

I am looking for for my grandfather's name in the contemptible list

 I have a photo which I have found with stuff as I trying to do my family tree! my grandfather is Arthur john George Veness? Dont know how to upload the photo!!!!

Many thanks Di 

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MaxD

Welcome Dia

16 hours ago, Dia said:

I am looking for for my grandfather's name

Was he a Seaforth Highlander?

 

Max

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Ellen Docking

I have a letter sent to my grandfather from king George in 1918. Would this be of interest to any museum ?

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Ellen Docking

I have a letter sent to my grandfather from king George in 1918. Would this be of interest to any museum ?

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Michelle Young

Welcome to the forum Ellen. Who was your Grandfather? Was he a member of the Old Contemptibles Association? If so @AndrewThornton would be very interested I'm sure.

 

Michelle 

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Dia
On 04/03/2020 at 14:02, MaxD said:

Welcome Dia

Was he a Seaforth Highlander?

 

Max

Yes have found out that he was. 

20200303_223929_001.jpg

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MaxD

There is a medal card for 10382 Acting Company Sergeant Major A G Veness (shown as AGJ Veness on a medal roll) who served with 2nd Battalion Seaforth Highlanders and who went to France on 23 August 1914.  This would entitle him to be called an Old Contemptible.  Whether he joined the Old Contemptibles Association is another matter.  

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D5680349

 

If you say whereabouts he lived, someone may be able to say where the local branch was but whether the records exist I don't know.

 

Max

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Dia

Not sure where he lived during the war but lived in battersea in 1924 when my mum was born then but lived in Plymouthin (1934) later in life and died in Weymouth 1939 mum was 14.

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Dia

Do you know what any of the wording means in the remarks box? Cant make it out. Thanks Di 

Screenshot_20200310-235932_Acrobat for Samsung.jpg

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MaxD

It looks as if it refers to him returning his 1914 Star perhaps for addition of the clasp to the Star (which he had to apply for) and it being re-issued to him.  CRV is the Certified Receipt Voucher which recorded the receipt and IV is the Issue Voucher when it was sent back.

 

The Clasp referred to is the Clasp and Roses:https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/campaign-medal-records/the-british-campaign-medals-for-the-great-war/  (scroll down to Clasp to the 1914 Star)

 

Max

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Angela Douglass

I have come across an Old Contemptible badge number 5501 in my late father's belongings.  The  registration number is 726347.  Thank you

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Michelle Young

Welcome to the forum. Calling @AndrewThornton who is our resident OCA expert.

Michelle

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AndrewThornton

Hello Angela. Does the four-digit number have a letter after it? I will be able to give you an approximate date when it was issued from these details. The number 726347 is the registration number for the design of The Old Contemptibles Association badge with the Patent Office. 

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Raxawa

I am very new to researching my grandfather's past in WWI.  So far I have been able to determine that he was in fact an Old Contemptible.  Is it possible that he would be one and not be part of the Old Contemptible Assoc. and therefore not have a badge number?

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Michelle Young

Welcome to the forum. If you let us have details like his name, date and place of birth, regiment if known, members can help you. Have you looked up his medal index card (free on ancestry) to see if he was entitled the 1914 star with clasp and roses? 
Michelle 

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Raxawa
5 hours ago, Michelle Young said:

Welcome to the forum. If you let us have details like his name, date and place of birth, regiment if known, members can help you. Have you looked up his medal index card (free on ancestry) to see if he was entitled the 1914 star with clasp and roses? 
Michelle 

 

18 hours ago, Raxawa said:

I am very new to researching my grandfather's past in WWI.  So far I have been able to determine that he was in fact an Old Contemptible.  Is it possible that he would be one and not be part of the Old Contemptible Assoc. and therefore not have a badge number?

I am very new to researching my grandfather's past in WWI.  So far I have been able to determine that he was in fact an Old Contemptible.  Is it possible that he would be one and not be part of the Old Contemptible Assoc. and therefore not have a badge number?

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Michelle Young

If you post his name and details, I'm sure that @AndrewThornton might be able to assist. People can't help you without the basic details I'm afraid.

Michelle 

 

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Raxawa

Yes, I have found his medal index card, and it indicates he was entitled to the 14 Star, but it doesn't say anything about the clasp and roses.  His details: Thomas Knight, born 1892 in Walworth, Southwark,London, Regiment - ASC. # T/29155. I would also like to understand some of the details on the medal Index card.  There are numbers which I don't understand.  Beside the Victory medal line - RASC /101 and then B /141; Beside the 14 Star line - ASC / 3 - whta do these numbers and letter B mean?  I understand the RASC and ASC codes. Thx

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Michelle Young

I can't find the card on Ancestry (nothing new there) is there a date of entry to theatre of war marked? 

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MaxD

His date of entry to France was 22 Aug 1914.  Clasp and Roses had to be applied for by the man (or next of kin  if he didn't survive).  There is nothing on the award roll to show he applied. Others on the same roll, same unit, did apply and received the clasp.

 

The letters and numbers refer to the roll on which the awards are listed, these can be found on Ancestry so ASC roll 3 has his 1914 Star, the others are the reference number of the BW and V roll.  As you see both have page numbers following.

 

I am unsure what evidence the Association needed for him to belong, perhaps as he never applied for the clasp he never applied to the Association..  On the face of it, the medal roll would do me!

 

Max

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Raxawa

MaxD, thank you for your explanation of the Medal index card numbers.  I read the explanations on the Longlongtrail site but these specific number allocations aren't described.  So is it at all possible now to apply for / get the clasp and roses?  and the Old Contemptible badge?

Another question I have, and this may not be the correct forum, is how to find out information on his Corp / Division / Unit etc.  The medal index card shows 2 Coy (is a Coy the Corp?), 4.Div.T which I interpret to be the 4th Divisional Train??? but also not sure what that means if it is that!!

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AndrewThornton
Posted (edited)

The annotation on the 1914 Star Roll is for No. 2 Company of the 4th Divisional Train, Army Service Corps.

 

With regard to applying for a Clasp and Roses to be issued retrospectively, I am afraid that it is highly unlikely that the MoD Medal Office would agree to this after nearly a century. 

 

The Old Contemptibles' Association no longer exists and therefore no badge would be issued to next of kin. They were only ever issued to individuals who had their eligibility checked and could show (in the vast majority of cases) that they qualified for the Clasp and Roses. This frequently involved potential Chums writing to the War Office Record Section to have written confirmation sent to them in order to satisfy these requirements. An issue of a Clasp and Roses despatched during the late 1920s and the 1930s (particularly late 1938/early1939) recorded on a Medal Index Card and on the 1914 Star Roll usually indicates that an applicant wished to join the Association. I have however come across individual cases of Chums being members of a particular Branch who did not however meet this requirement as they did not possess or qualify for the Clasp and Roses. How they managed to remain members of the Association I cannot explain as, unfortunately, the Headquarters Records no longer exist.

Edited by AndrewThornton

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