[Great War] Autobiographies Anonymous

[Marilyne]

Well not entirely on the WWI topic... other war... we're preparing our staff ride to Sedan and Bastogne and within our team I've been tasked to take a look at the person of Heinz Guderian and in how far his personality, influences and teachings impacted the decision making process leading to the battle of Sedan in 1940. SO I'm off to read Guderian's memoirs... 

 

M.

[Robert Dunlop]

Very interesting, Marilyne. Guderian's experience in WW1, particularly with radio communications between the HKK (equivalent of cavalry corps) that Guderian started with in the first weeks of the war and AOK (German Army HQ), is especially relevant. This provides the clear route back to the Great War ;-)

 

Robert

[Marilyne]

Thanks Robert!! I'll definitely use that in my presentation!! 

 

m.

[A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy]

On 14/05/2017 at 11:44, WilliamRev said:

I am looking for autobiographies/memoirs which include substancial personal accounts from Third Battle of Ypres/Passchendaele. I have over 40 First World War memoirs, but looking through them only Charles Carrington's 'Soldier from the War Returning' and Frank Richard's 'Old Soldiers Never Die' seem to contain decent descriptions of the battle.

It may be that after 4 years your quest for accounts from the Thrid Battle of Ypres is long over, but I can't see that anyone on this thread has yet mentioned At Ypres with Best Dunkley by Thomas Hope Floyd, which gives an account of the events leading up to the Third Battle of Ypres, and then the opening days of the battle itself, in which the author was wounded.

Thomas Floyd was, like my grandfather, a Bury man (in fact they both attended the same school, Bury Grammar School, though I think that Floyd must have been some years junior to my grandfather, as they do not appear to have known each other). Like my grandfather, Floyd initially enlisted as a private. He went to France with the Royal Fusiliers in 1916, but, before he saw any action he was recalled to Britain to train as an officer, returning to France in May 1917 as an officer with the 2/5th LF (again like my grandfather, though my grandfather was at that time in Britain recovering from having been wounded on the Somme in September 1916). Floyd's book, constructed around his diaries and letters home, gives an account of his time as an officer in the 2/5th LF in the summer of 1917, under its Commanding Officer, Best Dunkley, culminating in an action on 30th and 31st July 1917 south east of St Julien, in which Best Dunkley and many others were killed.  

[WilliamRev]

I'm pleased to see that the thread I started in Jan 2013 has been revived - it was the nearest I got to creating a 'Classic Thread' in the days when we still had them.

 

Thanks ALFBP for pointing out the existence of At Ypres with Best Dunkley by Thomas Hope Floyd. At the time it was first-hand accounts of the battle of Polygon Wood that I particularly needed for my dissertation, but this looks fascinating anyway, and have ordered a copy. It is a primary source, so I might find the odd nugget for my PhD, even though strictly speaking I am looking at Regular divisions. Also, my grandfather (see avatar) was a territorial private who was commissioned after a year on the Western Front, a 'temporary gentleman', so I might find things of interest along those lines.

 

Keep this thread up and running everyone!

 

William 

[A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy]

On 13/05/2021 at 18:35, WilliamRev said:

Thanks ALFBP for pointing out the existence of At Ypres with Best Dunkley by Thomas Hope Floyd.

I hope that you find it woth the read.

I found it particularly interesting because Floyd mentions some of the same men whom my grandfather mentions in his own book as being with the 2/5th LF when he was in that unit (October 1914 to September 1916), eg. Kemp, Latter, Andrews, Padre Newman, Sergeant Howarth, and Best Dunkley himself.

When my grandad returned to the Western Front in June 1917 he wrote to Best Dunkley and asked if he could be re-assigned to the 2/5th, to which Best Dunkley replied by saying that he woud be very pleased if my grandfather could come and join them, and that he had a company ready for him to take over but some strings would need to be pulled. The original letter is pasted into my grandfather's diary, and I have included a photograph of it in the published version.

In the event my grandfather was assigned to the 1/5th, which perhaps was just as well, partly because, as he himself says, he and Best Dunkley "never were the best of pals" (you may understand why when you read the Floyd book!), and also given the high death toll suffered by the 2/5th in the Third Battle of Ypres.

My grandfather took a little time to find his feet with the 1/5th, and in his diary entry for 5 August 1917 (which is the very day on which Best Dunkley died from the wounds he had received on 31 July 1917) he says that he "wished he had risked Best Dunkley and gone to the 2/5th" after all; his diary, though set out in the form of daily entries, was actually written from 1919 onwards, based on letters home and pocket diaries, as well as his personal recollections, and I have wondered whether it was deliberate that this remark is included in the entry for the very day on which Best Dunkley died, but, on balance, I think it is probably just coincidence.    

Coming back to Floyd's book, I hope that you will find that it stands up on its own without the additional reason that I had for being interested in it. Having said that, if you search for references to it on this Forum (for some reason "At Ypres with Best Dunkley" shows no results, but searching "Best Dunkley" does the trick) there are one or two less favourable comments, including one comment that he seems to do nothing but drink tea and go for strolls behind the lines, which is just a bit unfair I think!  

Edited 15 May , 2021 by A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy

[Black Maria]

This was my take on the book -  This is an excellent book which describes Floyd's service as a junior officer in the 2/5th Lancashire Fusiliers between

arriving in the salient on the eve of the battle of Messines Ridge , until he was wounded on the first day of the Third Battle of Ypres . He uses letters 

and diary entries to reinforce his narrative , he describes his battalions intense training for the 'Big Push' and his own and fellow officers relationship

with his commanding officer Lieut-Col Best-Dunkley who was destined to win a posthumous V.C in the coming battle , in which his beloved battalion

was to suffer huge losses . Unusually the author was a confirmed 'Easterner' who felt the war would not be won until Constantinople fell , he was also

a great admirer of Winston Churchill . 

 

What struck me when reading the book was that after all the training the battalion went through , the attack broke down because of intense rifle and 

machine gun fire , which was the one thing that could not be simulated in training .

 

[MartyG]

I’ve just purchased Captain Heath’s We Were A Band Of Brothers and Ernst Junger’s Storm of Steel thanks to reviews on this excellent thread, and then realised I’d stupidly not done so via the Forum’s Amazon link.

 

Made up for it (well, a bit anyway) with my next purchases, also thanks to this thread, Charles Carrington’s Soldier From The War Returning, Dick Read’s Of Those We Loved and “Jimmy” Downing’s To The Last Ridge.

 

Martin

 

[kenf48]

20 minutes ago, MartyG said:

Made up for it (well, a bit anyway) with my next purchase

Every little helps, thank you

[seaJane]

While compiling my bibliography on GW medicine and healthcare I've noticed quite a few books of reminiscences, diaries et cetera. You're welcome to go and investigate - the latest version of the said bibliography is pinned at the top of the Medical Services (Home and Abroad) sub-forum.

 

sJ

[Black Maria]

I thought i would just give a mention to a superb diary / memoir i read a few months ago , which i don't think has appeared directly on 

here yet ' A Lancashire Fusilier's First World War ' is the war diary of Captain Norman Hall , edited by his granddaughter Patricia Rothwell 

(who is a member of the forum ) . He was an officer of the 2/5th and later the 1/5th Lancashire Fusiliers and served with them on the Western 

Front from 1915 -18 . This really is a splendid book , Norman's diary is very detailed ( being compiled shortly after the war ) and Patricia's 

detailed footnotes are extremely useful . His account of the Somme battles in which his company was decimated really brings home what

a devastating campaign that was for the battalions which were thrown into the maelstrom . Captain Hall comes across as a very brave and 

resilient man and i wouldn't hesitate to recommend his fine diary to anyone who , like me, enjoys reading about the personal experience of war .

(  Patricia has put details of how to purchase the book on the GWF Classifieds ( publications books ) section of the forum ) .

 

 

 

 

Edited 21 May , 2021 by Black Maria

[EastSurrey]

18 hours ago, Black Maria said:

I thought i would just give a mention to a superb diary / memoir i read a few months ago , which i don't think has appeared directly on 

here yet ' A Lancashire Fusilier's First World War ' is the war diary of Captain Norman Hall , edited by his granddaughter Patricia Rothwell 

(who is a member of the forum ) . He was an officer of the 2/5th and later the 1/5th Lancashire Fusiliers and served with them on the Western 

Front from 1915 -18 . This really is a splendid book , Norman's diary is very detailed ( being compiled shortly after the war ) and Patricia's 

detailed footnotes are extremely useful . His account of the Somme battles in which his company was decimated really brings home what

a devastating campaign that was for the battalions which were thrown into the maelstrom . Captain Hall comes across as a very brave and 

resilient man and i wouldn't hesitate to recommend his fine diary to anyone who , like me, enjoys reading about the personal experience of war .

(  Patricia has put details of how to purchase the book on the GWF Classifieds ( publications books ) section of the forum ) .

 

 

 

 

There is a very positive review of this book in the latest 'Stand To!'

Michael

[Black Maria]

3 hours ago, EastSurrey said:

There is a very positive review of this book in the latest 'Stand To!'

Michael

That's good to hear , Chris Baker also gave it a very positive review on the LLT . 

[Black Maria]

Here is another excellent memoir recently published . A pre -war regular (2nd Leicesters ) who fought in the early battles of the war as part of 

the Indian Corps . 'Arthur- the Great War memoirs of William Arthur Human is a great read .

 

[Marilyne]

I'm desperately trying to get Boyfriend to have his nose more in a book and less on his cell phone watching whatever cr** there is on facebook or twitter and bought him "Mes Cloîtres dans la Tempête", the war memoirs of Martial Lekeux. 

Lekeux was a Lt in the fortress Aie, he entered Military Academy and after being dumped by a girlfriend left the army to become a Franciscan monk. He remained a reserve officer and in 1914 re-joined during the siege of Liege. Retreating with the army, he ended up in a little place on the Yzer called Oud-Stuyvekenskerke, not far from Perwijze, where he served as an artillery observer during 16 months. the book is about those 16 months. 

 

Now let's see how long it'll remain on a pile... 

 

M.

[Black Maria]

I tried very hard to finish  L of C ( Lines of Communication ) by James Agate (1877-1947) which are his letters home to a fellow journalist in the 

Manchester Guardian when he was an officer in the A.S.C . I found it quite hard going and to be honest quite boring , he seems to use as many

flowery words as he can  to give very little away , he also assumes every reader can speak fluent French by the number of French words and 

phrases he uses . It was published in 1917 and so he was restricted in what he could say , but even so what he does say there was very little that i 

found interesting or comprehensible ( his hunt for 'Marrows' in the south of France for example ) .

 

Maybe it's something to do with Manchester Guardian journalists but i also found 'Disenchantment' by C.E Montague very hard going but at least 

that had his story of the dead British officer with forged battle plans who was floated down the River Scarpe to hopefully be found by the Germans

that i found interesting and i somehow managed to finish it . 

 

[other ranker]

Black Maria, did everyone speak French in the 1930's when the majority of the great works were written?  I keep finding long phrases quite often in them. I suppose most of them were written by Public Schoolboys!

[Black Maria]

2 hours ago, other ranker said:

Black Maria, did everyone speak French in the 1930's when the majority of the great works were written?  I keep finding long phrases quite often in them. I suppose most of them were written by Public Schoolboys!

I often wonder that too , i expect they thought most of their readership were going to be ex-public schoolboys who read French as well ! It's most annoying though 

when you keep coming across it and with no translation ( i usually can't be bothered to keep looking it up on-line ) but just guess what they're getting at . 

[other ranker]

Sometimes its worth going back to the classics. I have just read 'The Storm Of Steel' again for the first time in 20 years. I forgot how riveting and in the moment it is. Just about to start 'And All For What?' by Cuddeford for the first time.

How often does anyone else go back to old favourites and why?

[Black Maria]

1 hour ago, other ranker said:

Sometimes its worth going back to the classics. I have just read 'The Storm Of Steel' again for the first time in 20 years. I forgot how riveting and in the moment it is. Just about to start 'And All For What?' by Cuddeford for the first time.

How often does anyone else go back to old favourites and why?

' And All For What ? ' is one of my favourites . There are so many books i would like to read again ( especially my 1914 memoirs ) but i have so many 

books still to read that i just haven't got the time . I've decided to have a break from the trenches and have just finished 'Wind in the Wires' , another 

excellent memoir like his other book ' An Escaper's Log' . The one book i have probably re-read the most is 'With a Machine Gun to Cambrai ' as it's the

one book i take on holiday with me .

[barkalotloudly]

just purchased a copy of "And all for what" with a long inscription and letter included .

My first copy of "At Ypres with Best Dunkley also a nice letter included written  to another veteran in which Floyd is looking forward to discussing service in the salient when he comes round with a copy of his book   {the 1/10000 map is often missing ]

[Dust Jacket Collector]

I’m just been reading Major Davidson’s ‘Incomparable 29th & the ‘River Clyde’’. Privately printed in 1919 it’s a remarkable account of the Gallipoli landings. As a doctor with the RAMC, Davidson was probably more aware than most of the slaughter going on around him. I’m not sure I’ve ever read a more graphic description of the effects of heavy artillery and sniping on the human body. There are a couple of expensive originals on the net but I think there’s a free download somewhere.

In reply to Other Rankers question, I’m not sure I’ve ever read a book twice. With at least a couple of books arriving every week I can barely keep up with them!

[Marilyne]

21 hours ago, other ranker said:

 'And All For What?' by Cuddeford for the first time.

How often does anyone else go back to old favourites and why?

Don't know that one... 

 

re-reading things is kind of a problem with me, because I keep on adding other books to my list... but I've read "Testament of youth" three times I think and some other diaries twice. 

I've got some passages in certain books marked out ans go back to those chapters when needed for research or for specific talks or visits. 

 

M.

[other ranker]

With the volume of books everyone has gathered over the years, how do you remember the stories? Don't they all just merge? Does anyone make notes to leave in the book of their impressions to remind them?

[Black Maria]

1 hour ago, other ranker said:

With the volume of books everyone has gathered over the years, how do you remember the stories? Don't they all just merge? Does anyone make notes to leave in the book of their impressions to remind them?

Good point . I started writing detailed Amazon reviews , firstly to help me remember the details of the books i had read and secondly i was fed up with

reviews that just said things like 'great read' when i was interested in a book and wanted information on it . Since they rejected one of my reviews because

i included a non-pc word (a quite innocuous word but obviously it may have sent some sensitive soul over the edge  ) i have been writing my reviews 

for my own personal use . I find them very useful as they do all merge into one eventually , for example on another thread a lady posted about her grandfather

who was imprisoned at Ruhleben Camp and included his typed memoir . I knew his experiences were similar to another in a book i had read recently but i couldn't

remember which book . Looking up my reviews i realised it was  Wallace Ellison's 'Escaped !'* . I also like to keep a list of the battalions and regiments the authors

served in as it's useful when people ask us on the forum if there are memoirs which cover a certain unit .

 

I don't leave anything in the book however , but write my reviews in lined A4 notebooks ( i'm on my fourth now i think ) .

 

* it was my review of this book that was rejected by Amazon funnily enough .

 

Edited 29 June , 2021 by Black Maria