Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Manchester Regiment and Public Schools - Chaps to Pals


8055Bell

Recommended Posts

John Hartley picked up a connection of Manchester Regt. officer's pre-war connections through public schools on a different thread. I've noted another connection of these commissioned Pals and thought it would be interesting to build a profile and perhaps let the second school know.

I will provide one post for each school and would appreciate and updates people may have. I will then update the original posts.

Tim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Merchiston College

Edinburgh

2nd Lt Alastair Cameron. Pupil. Survived the war

Lieutenant-Colonel Wilfrith Elstob VC DSO MC(16th) Alumnii. Manchester Uniivesity. Languages Master. KIA Manchester Hill 21/3/18.

Lieutenant-Colonel Edmund Fearenside DSO OBE (17th) Classics Master. Survived the war and returned to teach at Merchiston. Retired 1935.

Lieutenant Aubrey Harris (21st). Alumnii. Manchester Uniivesity. Died 4/9/16.Languages Master

2nd Lt James Kirkwood. Pupil. Left the battalion on 5/1/15, shell shock

Lieutenant-Colonel C L Macdonald DSO (17th)

Captain John G Madden DSO (17th)

2nd Lt Robert Forbes Mansergh MC (17th) Pupil. Survived the war.

Captain Stanley Kenworthy (17th) KIA 1/7/16 Montauban. Master

Major Rupert Edward Roberts (16th)

Mancunians in Other Corps / Regiments

2nd Lt John Murray Bell. Alumnii. Manchester Uniivesity in Highland Light Infantry. Classics Master. Killed in action 24th April 1917. No known grave. Commemorated on ARRAS MEMORIAL, Pas de Calais, France. Bay 8.

Most of these officers had been masters at the school. More details to follow.

Tim

Edited by 8055Bell
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Three more Merchiston Castle men - ex students, rather than ex-teachers, all serving with the 17th Battalion:

2nd Lt Alastair Cameron (survived the war)

2nd Lt James Kirkwood (left the battalion on 5/1/15, shell shock)

2nd Lt Robert Mansergh (survived the war)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks John.

And HARRIS, Lieutenant, AUBREY, "A" Coy. 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 4 September 1916. Age 22. Son of William and Mary Elizabeth Harris, of Oak Bank Villa, 72, Alexandra Rd., Wrexham. B.A. (Hons.) Manchester University. Senior language master (Merchiston, Edinburgh)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Apart from letting Merchiston school know of their proud history, this list is somewhat suprising. One master followed a logical route into a scottish batallion and the others joined the Manchesters. Why was this and where are all the Masters of Manchester Grammar?

Any thoughts?

Tim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good records here for masters in Officer Training Corps

http://www.scribd.co...CASTLE-SCHOOL-A

It appears the link between Merchiston officers may be the pre-war OTC connection. It would make sense for their pupils to join their former teachers as well.

The OTC record of War Service tells us that Manchester Grammar masters joined a multitude of units, but no record of anyone serving in the City 'Pals' Battalions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tim

The School is very aware of the contribution of its staff during the war. The school's chaplain (?) is the keeper of its history and was very helpful in supplying me with background information on those who served with the 17th battalion.

I've no idea why they came to be in the Manchesters but presume it's a sort of Pals thing - they all join up together and get commissions.

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks John,

It sounds like I need to wait for your book. Have you access to the Book of Honour by any chance? I wonder if there are earlier pupils or Masters that had left Merchiston to join the Manchesters. Maybe the Boer War?

Tim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

St Bees School
Cumberland (Cumbria)

2nd Lt Robert Mayson Calvert. 17th Battalion from March 1916 - 10/7/16 (KIA)
Captain Reginald James Ford (17th) Master KIA Montauban assault.1/7/16
Captain Stanley Kenworthy* (17th) Pupil KIA Montauban assault.1/7/16 http://www.stbees.or...1/kenworthy.htm
2nd Lieutenant Walter Truran Jones Died 12/10/16

2nd Lieutenant Joseph Nanson 17th Bn Posted 25th and att 22nd KiA Mametz 1/7/16 Born in Llangollen in 1894 he was educated at Mostyn House School & St Bees school.
Captain Richard W L Wain VC Died 20/11/17
Captain Robert G A Dickey (5th) Pupil St Bees and Alumni Manch. Uni. OTC Died 14/11/18 from influenza after gas poisoning on Somme April 1918. Uni Roll- Dickey, Robert George Alexander. Son of Dr. A. A. G.
Dickey, M.B.E., J.P., Higgin House, Colne. Born 1894
at Colne. St. Bees S., Cumberland. M.U. : 191 3 ? Student,
Chemistry; O.T.C. Oct. 19 13 to Nov. 19 14. Gaz. ist
Nov. 1914 ; 5th Bn. Manch. R. ; Capt. ; Gallipoli,
Sinai, and Western Front ; Wounded (twice). Died 14th
Nov. 19 1 8 at Greystones, Blackpool, of influenza, after gas
poisoning.

*Became Master at Merchiston College, Edinburgh

Edited by 8055Bell
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure if you are looking at only one particular school, Tim, but if not:

My grandfather and his two brothers all attended Brewood School! Staffs, and all were officers in the Manchester Regiment during WW1. Happily, all survived the war.

I have done a few pages on them here:

http://www.angelabird.plus.com/bagshawsindex.htm

The forum's Kirky put on an exhibition at Brewood School a few years back about the involvement of pupils in WW1. Not sure if others were in the Manchesters, but the thread is here http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=153721&hl=brewood#entry1501629

Did you also ask on the Manchester Regiment forum?

Angela

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Angela,

I enjoyed you blog. Kenneth's men helped take the wounded 17th Manchester men to dressing stations on 12th October. One such man was my Grandad. It seems Kenneth was wounded at the same place, a week later. Here's a pic http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Canadian_wounded_Flers-Courcelette_1916_IWM_CO_811.jpg. I saw a better one recently, but can't find it.

Back to the subject of the thread, I was hoping to find out why officers joined the Manchesters, particularly from an Edinburgh school. I thought this question went beyond the particular Regiment, but think I was wrong. My curreent thought is that Lt Col Elstob was a childhood friend of Cpn Hubert Worthington. When Wilfred Elstob joined the Army and moved to the Manchesters, at his friends behest, other colleagues joined him from Edinburgh, probably supported by the other Languages Master, Aubrey Harris. Pupils then followed, many of whom had been in the OTC with the Masters. We then extend the Pals link to find Master's friends from St Bees School in Cumbria.

I've found a problem with editing old posts, which means I can't update my lists. However, I will start a list for the Bagshaw Brothers if another name pops up. Did any other boys join the Bagshaws in the Regiment?

In conclusion (or speculation) the Manchester Regiment officers had groups of Pals, just like the men. They didn't serve together in the same way though.

Tim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My gut feeling is that Tim is right about Elstob being the driving force amongst the Merchiston men. The Worthingtons were a very powerful local family with, I think, three brothers serving in the Manchesters. Elstob and Worthington were very close friends - Michael Stedman gave a talk to my local WFA branch some while back. He strongly suggests that the award of Elstob's Victoria Cross can be attributed to the tireless efforts in lobbying for it by Worthington. I can well believe Elstob wanting to join up with Hubert and, having made that decision, convinced his colleagues they should do likewise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

St Bees - 2nd Lt Robert Mayson Calvert. 17th Battalion from March 1916 - 10/7/16 (KIA)

From the diary of Lt Kenneth MacArdle - " Calvert – a student of classics lately from St Bees in Cumberland, with bored looking wrinkles on his forehead and an inability to pronounce his “R”s which he substitutes with “W”s. He was meant for the Civil Service but makes a good enough soldier and is as comic as a clown with a tired resentful expression.”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2nd Lt Robert Mayson Calvert. Military Cross winner according to St Bees role of honour. Not quite the civil servant then!

Son of Robert and Fanny Maria Calvert, of Burgh-by-Sands, Cumberland. Educated at St. Bees School; Hastings Exhibitioner at Queen's College, Oxford. (CWGC)

Does anyone know how I can edit the old St Bees post to add Robert?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the St Bees roll may be wrong about the MC. I've no record of one for him (and neither does CWGC).

Doncha just love the idea of "bored looking wrinkles"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Photo and Obituary on this link. http://www.trinity.cumbria.sch.uk/warmem/ No mention of the MC, but he looks like a handsome fellow to me! Our Kenneth is a bit of a hero, for keeping such a detailed diary - until Trones Wood, unfortunately for all of us. Perhaps these two chaps weren't such good friends...

BTW is Kenneth's diary available on-line anywhere? I haven't seen this extract before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope. The only full copy of MacArdle's diary is at IWM London (the original is on display at IWM North).

Lots of good stuff in it. But you're going to have to wait for the book. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good salesmanship! You've got one buyer ready and WAITING.

You said it would be published at the end of Jan. Do you mean 2014, or perhaps 2016 to commemorate the First Day.

I had a boss that used to roll everything out over Q3, but never mentioned the year either.

Hahaha

I need to blag another trip to IWM as well. Seeing these documents brings the whole concept to reality. A bit like the 17th Book...

T

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There has been, ahem, slippage with the publisher's schedule.

But I do, at last, have a first proof. I'm rather pleased with how its looking (and I will be seeing if we can include Allan Bell's photo)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...