Lt L B Jones

[Dolphin]

The Australian Society of WWI Aero Historians is putting the finishing touches to a database of all Australians who served in air services (both Allied and enemy) during the Great War. As part of this project, there's a list of the pilots and observers who were credited with five or more victories - the aces. Many sources have been used to assemble the information, and the victory tally some airmen who are named as aces in what seemed like authoritative publications have turned out not to be substantiated.

At the moment, I'm puzzled by one man: a Lt L B Jones, who is listed as an Australian ace with seven victories in the venerable Air Aces of the 1914-1918 War, edited by Bruce Robertson and originally published in 1959.

I've looked through the RFC and RAF Communiques, Above the Trenches, Above the War Fronts, the Air-Britain books in the Camel, DH4/DH9, Pup and SE5a, plus the Official History of the AFC and many other books, but I can't find any mention of a Lt L B Jones. Unfortunately, 'Jones' is a rather popular name, which makes searching for him a touch more difficult than it might be, especially when the man's given names are unknown.

Does anyone know who he was, and where he served?

Gareth

[josquin]

Gareth,

There is an RAF service record for Lt. Lionel Baker Jones (AIR 76/265/38), birthdate 25 July 1895, at the National Archives.

Also at NA, a record for Lt. Lionel Baker-Jones (AIR 76/265/38)--possibly the same man? The service records would indicate

his postings, and, possibly, the Australian connection. I recall the listing in the old Harleyford book, but I only recall seeing

it in that specific reference--and MacKay's list had a great many errors.

From the London Gazette:

Award citation for the Military Cross (LG 26 May 1917, 30095/5182):

"2/Lt. Lionel Baker Jones, Welsh R., and R.F.C.

For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty when acting as an observer. He has on many occasions

assisted in beating off hostile machines. He has done exceptionally fine work in artillery observation."

Commissioned as 2/Lieutenant (LG 15 September 1915, 29297/9199):

from the Welsh Regiment:

"Private Lionel Baker Jones, from the Inns of Court Officer Training Corps, to be Second Lieutenant.

Dated 16th September, 1915."

Lt. Jones was an observer with 12 Squadron; one of his pilots was Capt. Philip James Vaughan Lavarack, M.C. & Bar;

R.F.C. Communique number 82 records that whilst on photographic work, Lt. Lavarack and 2nd Lt. Baker-Jones

"were attacked by an HA. The HA finally burst into flames and fell."

Depending on the specific record, then, he is either "Jones" or "Baker-Jones."

I hope that was of some use for your enquiry.

Trelawney

[centurion]

There was an A L Jones of the RNAS with 7 victories but don't know if he had any Australian connections. There were certainly Australian pilots in the RNAS. . George Jones of the AFC also had 7 victories. He is mentioned in Men and Machines of the Australian Flying Corps by Charles Schaedel (and was still living when the book was written in 1972). Other than the Harleyford book there is no mention of L B Jones. Other lists of British and Commonwealth aces I have seen do not mention him. I think this has been discussed earlier in this forum.

[Simon Birch]

I have a copy of the AIR76 for L B Jones. Ex 6th Welsh. Address is given as Swansea and had been a medical student in Edinburgh. Gareth - if you want a copy PM me.

Also believe that he enlisted into RAMC and was later commissioned into the Welsh. Service papers available on Ancestry. Cannot see any clear connection with down under.

Simon

[Dolphin]

Gentlemen

Thank you very much for your efforts. The note identifying Jones as Australian in "Air Aces"seems to be an error. Perhaps there was some confusion between Swansea in South Wales and Swansea in New South Wales. We shall probably never know.

Cheers

Gareth

[Aneurin]

At least he was a rugby player, Gareth.

The University of Edinburgh Record of Service has:

Jones, Lionel Baker, Christ College, Brecon; First XV and XI. Student of Medicine, 1914. O.T.C. Infantry, Oct. 1914 to May 1915, Cadet, Inns of Court O.T.C. May to Sept. 1915. 6th Welsh Regiment, 2nd Lieut. Sept. 1915. R.F.C. and Royal Air Force, Aug. 1916. Lieut. April 1917 to July 1919. M.C. April 1917.

Gwyn

Email to follow.

[The Inspector]

Hi

A post on the Aerodrome Forum in 2001 from a Stuart Elliott, is about the purchase of his medals and states his service history/promotions etc. had been listed.

Regards Barry

He was 27 yrs old when he was killed in 1923 by a Patan tribesman.

Edited 22 December , 2012 by The Inspector

[Dolphin]

Gentlemen

Thanks for the extra information. The suggested link to Australia seems quite bewildering.

Cheers

Gareth

[Dave W]

This is what I have on him, I really cannot see any Australian connection at all.......

Jones,L.B: 6th (T.F.) Bn Welsh Regt. R.F.C. & R.A.F.

Private Lionel Baker Jones, from the Inns of Court Officers Training Corps, commissioned 2Lt., The Welsh Regt., 16.9.15: Appointed Flying Officer (Observer) to the Military Wing R.F.C., and was secd. 31.12.16., with seniority from 7.8.16.

Lt., Welsh Regt. 1.7.17., remaining seconded.

M.C., L.G. 26.5.17. (2Lt. & R.F.C.).

"2nd Lt. Lionel Baker Jones, Welsh R., and R.F.C. For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty when acting as an observer. He has on many occasions assisted in beating off hostile machines. He has done exceptionally fine work in artillery observation."

Lt. Lionel Baker Jones joined the Inns of Court O.T.C. as Pte. No. 3854, on 31.5.15. He was commissioned as a 2Lt. 6th (Glamorgan) T.F. Bn. Welsh Regiment on 16.9.15., subsequently serving as an Observer with the RFC and RAF from 24.5.16. in France, Egypt & Palestine. He was promoted Lt. 1.7.17.

He was awarded the Military Cross (L.G. 26.5.17.).

R.A.F. List for April 1918, General List states Lieut. MC. Observer Officer 1.4.18.

The Medal Index Card confirms that his BWM & Victory medals were issued 7.12.20., his final rank given as Captain.

He was born in 1892 at Glamorgan, living at Brynfield, Reynoldston, Glamorganshire, South Wales and in 1919 was shown as Lt. Territorial Force Reserve.

July 1915 AL states serving with R.F.C.

T/Lt. 6th (D.F.) Bn Welch Regt., 11.4.21.

Re-appointed to 6th Bn Welch Regt., retaining rank and precedence 1.1.22.

His medals were sold on ebay in May 2006, together with RFC Bronzed officers cap or collar badge, both rear lugs missing & an R.F.C. embroidered gold wire blazer badge. He appears in the Inns of Court O.T.C. Roll, Joined O.T.C. 31.5.15. No. 3854, joining No. 4 Company. Commissioned Welsh Regt. 16.9.15. Transferred to R.F.C. & R.A.F., Served France, Egypt & Palestine. Rose to rank of Lt. and was awarded the M.C.

Lionel Baker Jones, is listed in the University of Edinburgh Roll of Honour 1914-1919: ‘Christ College, Brecon ; First XV. and XI. Student of Medicine, 1914. O.T.C. Infantry, Oct. 1914 to May 1915, Cadet. Inns of Court O.T.C. May to Sept. 1915. 6th Welsh Regiment, 2Lt. Sept. 1915. R.F.C. and Royal Air Force, Aug. 1916; Lt. April 1917 to July 1919. M.C. April 1917.’

M.C., BWM & VM (Lieut.). (VM dull bronzed issue). Date of first entry to theatre (theatre not stated on MIC) 24.5.16. Address: Brynfield, Reynoldston, S.Wales.

Dave

[Simon Birch]

This is what I have on him, I really cannot see any Australian connection at all.......

Jones,L.B: 6th (T.F.) Bn Welsh Regt. R.F.C. & R.A.F.

Private Lionel Baker Jones, from the Inns of Court Officers Training Corps, commissioned 2Lt., The Welsh Regt., 16.9.15: Appointed Flying Officer (Observer) to the Military Wing R.F.C., and was secd. 31.12.16., with seniority from 7.8.16.

Lt., Welsh Regt. 1.7.17., remaining seconded.

M.C., L.G. 26.5.17. (2Lt. & R.F.C.).

"2nd Lt. Lionel Baker Jones, Welsh R., and R.F.C. For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty when acting as an observer. He has on many occasions assisted in beating off hostile machines. He has done exceptionally fine work in artillery observation."

Lt. Lionel Baker Jones joined the Inns of Court O.T.C. as Pte. No. 3854, on 31.5.15. He was commissioned as a 2Lt. 6th (Glamorgan) T.F. Bn. Welsh Regiment on 16.9.15., subsequently serving as an Observer with the RFC and RAF from 24.5.16. in France, Egypt & Palestine. He was promoted Lt. 1.7.17.

He was awarded the Military Cross (L.G. 26.5.17.).

R.A.F. List for April 1918, General List states Lieut. MC. Observer Officer 1.4.18.

The Medal Index Card confirms that his BWM & Victory medals were issued 7.12.20., his final rank given as Captain.

He was born in 1892 at Glamorgan, living at Brynfield, Reynoldston, Glamorganshire, South Wales and in 1919 was shown as Lt. Territorial Force Reserve.

July 1915 AL states serving with R.F.C.

T/Lt. 6th (D.F.) Bn Welch Regt., 11.4.21.

Re-appointed to 6th Bn Welch Regt., retaining rank and precedence 1.1.22.

His medals were sold on ebay in May 2006, together with RFC Bronzed officers cap or collar badge, both rear lugs missing & an R.F.C. embroidered gold wire blazer badge. He appears in the Inns of Court O.T.C. Roll, Joined O.T.C. 31.5.15. No. 3854, joining No. 4 Company. Commissioned Welsh Regt. 16.9.15. Transferred to R.F.C. & R.A.F., Served France, Egypt & Palestine. Rose to rank of Lt. and was awarded the M.C.

Lionel Baker Jones, is listed in the University of Edinburgh Roll of Honour 1914-1919: ‘Christ College, Brecon ; First XV. and XI. Student of Medicine, 1914. O.T.C. Infantry, Oct. 1914 to May 1915, Cadet. Inns of Court O.T.C. May to Sept. 1915. 6th Welsh Regiment, 2Lt. Sept. 1915. R.F.C. and Royal Air Force, Aug. 1916; Lt. April 1917 to July 1919. M.C. April 1917.’

M.C., BWM & VM (Lieut.). (VM dull bronzed issue). Date of first entry to theatre (theatre not stated on MIC) 24.5.16. Address: Brynfield, Reynoldston, S.Wales.

Dave

Just cos I am nosey - do you know what the medals went for?

Simon

[josquin]

Dave,

An 1892 birthdate for Lionel Baker Jones is not confirmed by the available records. The RAF gives his birthdate as 25 July 1895;

the BMD states that his birth was registered in the 3rd Quarter of 1895 at Gower, Glamorgan;

his age is listed as 5 & 15 yrs. in the 1901 & 1911 Wales Census, his birthplace is listed as Glamorgan,

& his birthdate as "abt.1896." His parents were Samuel & Edith Baker Jones; the family was living in Glamorgan in 1901and Brecon in 1911. As "The Inspector" states in his post, Jones was killed by a

Patan tribesman during the Waziristan conflict, on the northwest frontier, in 1923--at the age of 27.

Trelawney

[Clive ex RAF plumber]

You asked how much Lionel Baker Jones's medals sold for on 'e' bay in 2006 that would be £1875 if memory serves me correctly.